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Thread: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

  1. #11
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar
    Just a quick observation: There's been a lot of talk in the media about what it means that Obama can't beat Hillary among white working class voters. Very little talk of how much he traunces her among black voters.

    The thing is, white working class voters usually vote republican anyway. Whereas blacks are the Dems' most loyal constituency -roughly one in five of all democratic votes come from black people.
    No, working class white voters largely voted Democratic for most of the 20th century and were an important plank of the "New Deal Coalition" that saw the Democratic party maintain a stranglehold on both Congress and the US Presidency until 1968 (forty years ago). What happened? The 1968 Democratic convention and the implosion of the Democratic party. The result? Richard Millhouse Nixon. He swept the South (the first Republican to do so in about a hundred years) and did so again in 1972. He won the white, working class vote (or enough of it) and although James Earle Carter jnr reclaimed white workers in 1976, enough of them voted Republican in 1980, 1984, 1988 and 2000 and in 2004 to see Republican domination of the White House. Another result was the re-capture of both houses of Congress from the Democrats in 1994 (after forty years of Democratic rule, itself preceded by just 2 years of Republican control).

    Unfortunately for Liberals:
    • White men make up approximately 39% of the US electorate -all minorities account for just 30%
      Low-income i.e. working class voters in small towns account for 18% of the electorate (their opposites account for ~12-14%)
      Blacks account for about 12% of voters -and are an unreliable voting demographic

    He will lose Appalachia including the crucial swing states of PA, OH and WV. No chance in KY, Indiana or Michigan (who's voters will probably vote against him).

    Despite this talk of the South becoming a "Republican stronghold" (well, it is for Federal Elections), the South largely returns Democrats in Municipal and local elections because there are more registered Democrats than Republicans in the Southern USA. Southern whites are still largely Democratic voters and the Republicans' base there are either an historical minority ("Scallawags and Carpetbaggers") or recent affluent, middle-class arrivals from the Northeast. Southern Good ole Boys are still Democrats. There are very view Republicans elected to Statewide office in Louisiana, for example, and Georgia elected its first Republican Governor in 130 years. This is changing, obviously and a significant minority of Democratic voters (probably a majority of registered White Democrats) regularly vote for Republican Presidents or Senators. Will Obama win any Southern states in November, even with the Black vote? No. In fact, he will probably lose those states in larger margins than John Kerry did -who also had ~90% of the black vote. Crucially, he will Florida -who's Democratic voters will punish him for trying to disenfranchise them.

    The only chance Democrats have is if:
    • A third party candidates such as Ross Perot runs and splits the angry white male vote, or
      Democrats run a white Southern male

    Al Gore jnr is probably the only chance the Democrats have and would've walked it if he ran in 2004 (he bucked the trend established by Democrats candidates these last few decades by reclaiming enough of the white working class vote and small town vote. Not enough though).
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  2. #12
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Keep the predictions coming guys!

    DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!!!!!!!!!
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  3. #13
    Politics.ie Regular Libero's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilW
    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    2 Rasmussen polls today from 2 Southern states with 20-25% Black populations:

    Virginia:
    McCain 47%
    Obama 44%

    North Carolina:
    McCain 48%
    Obama 45%
    Er, any reason you're not quoting the McCain / Clinton numbers from the same polls? Could it be because they directly contradict your oft-repeated view that Clinton is more electable than Obama?
    Oh. They do?
    Fancy that! FutureTaoiseach ommitting information that doesn't suit his case...

    Yup, Rasmussen have her polling 40-43 against McCain in North Carolina.

    And in Virginia, she's behind 41-47.

    Rasmussen also note of the Virginia numbers: "The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Virginia finds John McCain leading Barack Obama by just three percentage points, 47% to 44%. That’s a significant improvement for Obama after trailing the presumptive Republican nominee by eleven points a month ago."

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  4. #14
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    President Dean? The Kerry/McCain ticket? anyone remember these things?
    because this far out from 2004 these were the kinds of things still being thrown around.

    oh and lets not forget that Perot was leading in the polls for a while in 1992 and Clinton was in third.

    It's way to early to be looking at General Election polling.
    The democratic party is not yet united and their campaign hasn't started, and as soon as the people realize all the republicans have got is 527 groups saying hes a super secret terrorist Islamist with an antiamerican christian pastor, and all McCain has to say is "vote for me or the terrorists will get you, they're under your bed you know", they'll loose.

    So unless either of them are loosing to McCain 60-40 in the polls (virtually imposable) it's got nothing to do with anything.
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  5. #15
    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Libero
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilW
    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    2 Rasmussen polls today from 2 Southern states with 20-25% Black populations:

    Virginia:
    McCain 47%
    Obama 44%

    North Carolina:
    McCain 48%
    Obama 45%
    Er, any reason you're not quoting the McCain / Clinton numbers from the same polls? Could it be because they directly contradict your oft-repeated view that Clinton is more electable than Obama?
    Oh. They do?
    Fancy that! FutureTaoiseach ommitting information that doesn't suit his case...

    Yup, Rasmussen have her polling 40-43 against McCain in North Carolina.

    And in Virginia, she's behind 41-47.

    Rasmussen also note of the Virginia numbers: "The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Virginia finds John McCain leading Barack Obama by just three percentage points, 47% to 44%. That’s a significant improvement for Obama after trailing the presumptive Republican nominee by eleven points a month ago."
    Actually the reason I didn't include her is because Rasmussen is about to stop polling her support because Obama has the nomination in the bag. The reality though is that most polls show her beating McCain in Florida, Ohio and Missouri while Obama is way behind in those states. Historically if you don't win at least one of them you lose the election.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyklon b
    No, working class white voters largely voted Democratic for most of the 20th century and were an important plank of the "New Deal Coalition" that saw the Democratic party maintain a stranglehold on both Congress and the US Presidency until 1968 (forty years ago). What happened? The 1968 Democratic convention and the implosion of the Democratic party. The result? Richard Millhouse Nixon. He swept the South (the first Republican to do so in about a hundred years) and did so again in 1972. He won the white, working class vote (or enough of it) and although James Earle Carter jnr reclaimed white workers in 1976, enough of them voted Republican in 1980, 1984, 1988 and 2000 and in 2004 to see Republican domination of the White House. Another result was the re-capture of both houses of Congress from the Democrats in 1994 (after forty years of Democratic rule, itself preceded by just 2 years of Republican control).
    I can't fully agree with you. The real reason the South stopped voting Democratic in most oresidential elections was that Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act 1964, enfranchising the African-Americans of the South. The Southerners had traditionally voted Democratic before then because they opposed Civil Rights for Blacks, and saw GOP as the party of Lincoln as Reconstruction (the period of military rule in the South after the Civil War). It's no accident that around that time, Southern Democrats like Strom Thurmond and former Texas Governor John Connally started flooding into the GOP while the African-Americans became 90% Democratic in presidential elections.

  6. #16
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Virginia:
    McCain 47%
    Obama 44%

    North Carolina:
    McCain 48%
    Obama 45%

    you must take those poll's with a pinch of salt,and also obama has no yet turned his attention to mc cain,so therefore i would not pay much attention to any polls with a mc cain v obama slant
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  7. #17
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmcgahon dundalk YFG
    Virginia:
    McCain 47%
    Obama 44%

    North Carolina:
    McCain 48%
    Obama 45%

    you must take those poll's with a pinch of salt,and also obama has no yet turned his attention to mc cain,so therefore i would not pay much attention to any polls with a mc cain v obama slant

    I agree completely - these polls are reflecting a split Democratic ticket. Many of Hillary's supporters would go McCain right now - or so they claim in separate polls - and some of O's people say they will not vote for Hillary. So the polls are not reflecting the true picture of a declared Dem candidate.

  8. #18
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    Re: Importance of white blue collar voters versus black voters

    Ok I'm taking this to be the thread on Race+Class for the US General Election


    Today McCain goes to the NAACP and praises Obama
    (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain on Wednesday praised rival Sen. Barack Obama as he spoke at the annual NAACP convention and looked to close a wide divide on race in the polls.

    Republican candidates historically do not win much of the black vote. President Bush received just 11 percent of the black vote when he ran against John Kerry in 2004.

    At the conclusion of his address, McCain received a standing ovation and held a question-and-answer session with the audience.

    A New York Times/CBS News poll conducted July 7-14 found that black voters favor Obama over McCain, 89 to 2 percent.
    So McCain is playing the McDonald's game!

    McDonald's have salads prominently on the menu: do they sell many? No. Thus they hurt McDonald's on a cost basis as extra diversity of product, training, supply chain, space in kitchen...

    McDonald's prominently advertise the "careers" their staff have, how respected they are. Before they did this did they have difficulty getting staff ? : No.

    McCain doesn't want/won't get the black vote just like McDonald's don't want to/won't sell salads or need to give their staff careers.

    McCain wants the liberal whites to feel he is reaching out to the black people.

    McDonald's wants you to think that it cares about healthy eating and that you aren't forcing its staff into McJobs

    McCain is playing a good marketing & perception game here !

    cYp
    "Yawn , am I alive yet ?"

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