Obama and the Pastor Wright

[markeys]

Obama is scheduled to give a 'major' speech on race today at 10:30 ET I think. Thing is, has the democratic race for the nomination desceded into a simple race election and more importantly has the injection of Race into proceedings been down to the Clintons?

Very early on we had Bill Clinton trying to paint Obama as just a black Canidate - for which he was rightly and roundly denounced.

Next we had Hillary Clintons comments about Obama's religion - he's not a muslim 'as far as I know'.

Finally we have Ferraro's comments about Obama's running as a canidate. Ferraro has been far to long in politics and is too closely allied to Hillary to make such comments. I believe they were far from being a slip of the tounge or being unintentional.

Now we have the infamous Pastor Wright Tapes which further paint Obama into a corner - a corner where it is increasingly likely that white males (with which he has done well) will no longer vote for him in the upcoming primaries. If Obama is the master of speeches, then his upcoming speech sure had better be one of his best. He truly needs to bed this whole issue of race, and Pastor Wright before it further damages his voter appeal.

[meriwether]

This sort of thing may help Hillary gain the nomination, but its going to damahe her chances among liberals and Blacks for the General Election.

McCain and the GOP are laughing all the way to the bank at this.

[Victor Meldrew]

McCain and the GOP are laughing all the way to the bank at this.

Yep, why campaign when your opponents will just eat each other... At least it's McCain this time not GWB, and we'll only have him for 4 years.



although having a candidate who admits to nt understanding the economy is a bit of an issue at present (unless the fed can "fix" the economy by November......)

[Squire Allworthy]

There is also the counter agruement that it is Obama's team that are taking remarks out of context and are themselves making race an issue. Who knows where the truth lies, but one thing for sure Obama is unlikely to be President.

We do know that Obama went to this church for twenty years and regards Dr. Wright as "a dear old uncle." If you read any of Obama's rebuttals they mean a lot less than they actually imply. This is the church where Obama was married and where he dragged his children along to. I simply do not believe that he was not aware of Dr. Wright's views or his more vehement rhetoric. Utterly impossible. I cannot believe he was not aware of the ethos of that church. Obama is either a fool or he is lying or he is a true calculating cynic who used the church as a base to get elected. As for Dr. Wright it would seem he is a racist who preaches in a manner that encourages hate. Even if you agree with some of his points his speeches are decidedly 'coloured' in outlook.

By the way if you accept Obama's comments at face value he was aware of the speeches at the beginning of his presidential campaign. So what does he do denounce the Rev. not a chance, he actually included Dr. Wright on his team!

This is yet another example of Obama either being naive, lying or showing poor judgement.

Lot of similarities between Dr Wright and Dr Paisley, would you vote for someone who condoned either?


The Republicans can't believe their luck. I think with this sort of material in the public domain Obama has not the slightest chance of winning against McCain. This should have been an easy run for the Democrats with Bush and the Republicans not exactly basking in public favour. The race is now McCain's to lose.

[markeys]

Well in fairness I don't agree with everything my church says 100%.

I'm sure the vast majority of people don't agree with their church 100%.

If Obama can make that distinction then I think he'll be ok.I also think that if he can maintain a lead in plegded delegates, he will be the democratic nominee, if only because the Dem's know that choosing Clinton over Obama will mean the loss of the Black vote. However choosing Obama, will not mean the loss of white voters - In the general publics eye there will have be no injustice done vis a vis electing the person with the most delegates.

Can you imagine FOX news having a superb time with the Democrats denying the 'will of the people' if a candiate behind in delegates is elected as the nominee??

[Squire Allworthy]

Well in fairness I don't agree with everything my church says 100%.

But does the views from the pulpit in your church amount to racism? Is that the ethos of your church or is it a more inclusive form of Christianity?

choosing Clinton over Obama will mean the loss of the Black vote. However choosing Obama, will not mean the loss of white voters - In the general publics eye there will have be no injustice done vis a vis electing the person with the most delegates.

Are you kidding would you vote for someone who venerates a pastor who could be painted as a racist? I read a poll that stated that less Clinton supporters would vote for Obama than the other way round. How that would actually play out on the day I just do not know.

It is worse than that look at the comments on 9/11 and Israel. I actually share much of the doubt Dr Wright expresses but it is the way he delivers the message that is inflammatory. How can you possibly be in association with such a person and not know their views? How can you support such a Church? In the real world Obama's position is just not credible unless his only reason for attending was to secure a vote base.

The Democrats need to do a deal. If they continue like this they will destroy each other.

[markeys]

Well its not so much the issue with McCain. After all McCain's pastor has said the US was founded to destory Islam. He's said New Orleans brought Catriona on itself! So as for GOP V's DEM's in a raving pastor battle - It'll be 50/50 there i think.

McCain has ACTIVELY sought out the political endorsements of guys like John Hagee and Rod Parsley. - Some of their more obscene statments inlclude:

'Islam should be eradicated'
- The catholic church is the "great whore"
- Islam is a "devil religion", " -Allah was a demon spirit"

So in that respect I don't think the GOP will make much of an issue with it.
The damage to Obama lies withing the Hillary V Obama campaign. Hillary has no raving pastor. Obama does.

[Squire Allworthy]

But the majority of American citizens are white and only a small minority are Muslims. It doesn't make either pastor right, but gives a gauge to the likely magnitude of the possible fall out.

The GOP won't run with it, but the right wing end of the media will. The damage to Obama is cumulative and it again brings into question his themes of uniting, trust and change. The longer this runs the more obvious it becomes that he is just as cynical as the rest and nothing different. Be in no doubt this will damage his Presidential run if he were nominated.

[essexboy]

He should say Wright is wrong.

[Libero]

Andrew Sullivan has a good piece on this issue:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...esting-of.html

All of us come from some sort of background where identification with a group either shapes or at least influences our political outlook.

Some of us were born into and brought up alongside the local GAA club, or we spent years of our lives with childhood friends and family, or we got involved with a political party.

It follows that we find it harder to criticise, to put the boot into others in that group when they say or do something wrong.

Many times, though, we should criticise. If a fellow GAA clubmate headbutts another player (or someone in a bar), the identity shouldn't stop us telling him he's wrong and cooperating with the Garda.

In today's Irish times, Fintan O'Toole sharply criticises those fellow poets who try and muddy the waters over Cathal O'Searchaigh's behaviour in Nepal. And he is right, they shouldn't cop out and defend their own by reflex.

But it doesn't follow that just because someone from your identity group does something wrong, you should disassociate yourself completely, to the extent you pretend you don't belong to that group anymore. The GAA club member is still a club member. And Barack Obama is still a member of that church.

He might now regret getting and staying involved over the years. But it would be even more unimpressive to now put on an act and pretend that he never fitted into this Church. Americans will just have to ask themselves if they really believe that identifying with such a grouping is more unacceptable than, say, identifying with a White House perjurer and sexual harrasser of women. Personally, Obama's church membership doesn't bother me. Blacks have been the oppressed in America, which makes 'their' radical churches a good deal less obnoxious than Pat Robertson or even Ian Paisley. And nobody can seriously claim that Obama is a force against, rather than for, racial harmony in America.