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  1. #51
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eagle of the Ninth View Post
    This is very interesting.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...s-memo-n846176

    Kaine wants Trump to give his legal rationale for ramping up the bombing in Syria. It is standard for US presidents to release their legal justifications behind escalating military action to Congress, who have over-sight but Trump is sitting on this one. Did he even read it?

    The demand follows loose talk from Trump officials about what they might do in Korea and Syria.

    Oh and

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...-a-major-event

    Get someone to attack America fast, so everyone can rally round the President?
    It is one thing to build up the American military, Trump is itching to use.

    More about the Peace & Love President's Budget:

    While the White House proposed significantly cutting or eliminating other agencies and programs, the administration is proposing an $80 billion increase in the Defense Department’s budget for fiscal 2019, compared to the level enacted in fiscal 2017.

    The budget builds a more lethal, ready, and larger joint force that, combined with a robust system of allies and partners, would sustain American influence and preserve stable regional balances of power that have proven conducive to peace and prosperity,” the document states."


    This is not how the Putinbots sold the President in 2016. Trump presented himself as a nationalist who would fight to preserve welfare and social programmes, while rejecting excessive foreign entanglements.

    I did point out at the time that his major objection to foreign wars was not that they were immoral or unethical, or even that they killed too many people, but that they were not profitable enough. He supported the Iraq War up until he realised that the US was not stealing enough Iraqi oil to make the deal a favourable one.
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  2. #52
    Mr. Blobby Mr. Blobby is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volatire View Post
    zoo
    Agreed - The OP is a copy and paste job from Juan Cole. But then when you see the individual poster the who started this thread, you understand more. It seems he can't go a week without starting a thread about his favourite fetish "Donald Trump".

    The Wars of Donald Trump indeed, more like the inheritied problems of previous administrations and the long term disasterous impacts of American foreign policy.
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  3. #53
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blobby View Post
    Agreed - The OP is a copy and paste job from Juan Cole. But then when you see the individual poster the who started this thread, you understand more. It seems he can't go a week without starting a thread about his favourite fetish "Donald Trump".

    The Wars of Donald Trump indeed, more like the inheritied problems of previous administrations and the long term disasterous impacts of American foreign policy.
    If you had the honesty to admit that it was the 2000 - 2008 Republican administration who created today's Middle East chaos, your post might be considered more than just a piece of ineffectual messenger-shooting.

    But mutter away in the corner to your heart's content.

    Pity that Trump is looking more and more like a Bush-Cheney Third Term.
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  4. #54
    Mr. Blobby Mr. Blobby is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    If you had the honesty to admit that it was the 2000 - 2008 Republican administration who created today's Middle East chaos, your post might be considered more than just a piece of ineffectual messenger-shooting.

    But mutter away in the corner to your heart's content.

    Pity that Trump is looking more and more like a Bush-Cheney Third Term.
    You mean the mess in Libya, Syria, Egypt and Yemen were caused by Bush and Cheney? You've missed an 8 year period there between Bush and Trump.

    I'm messanger shooting, because the topic is lazy. The issue to be looked at is how American foreign policy and intervention destroys countries.

    You've just been itching to throw more sh1te at Trump to see if it sticks, you've literally copied and pasted someone else thoughts into a thread.

    In terms of honesty, I've no problem admitting that Bush & Cheney were responsible for Iraq, Afganistan and the hostility now with Iran.

    Can you be more honest about Obama/HRC's meddling in other countries affairs?
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  5. #55
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blobby View Post
    You mean the mess in Libya, Syria, Egypt and Yemen were caused by Bush and Cheney? You've missed an 8 year period there between Bush and Trump.

    I'm messanger shooting, because the topic is lazy. The issue to be looked at is how American foreign policy and intervention destroys countries.

    You've just been itching to throw more sh1te at Trump to see if it sticks, you've literally copied and pasted someone else thoughts into a thread.

    In terms of honesty, I've no problem admitting that Bush & Cheney were responsible for Iraq, Afganistan and the hostility now with Iran.

    Can you be more honest about Obama/HRC's meddling in other countries affairs?

    Trump supported the war in Iraq and was an early cheerleader for intervention in Libya. His only problems are that not enough oil was plundered to justify the expense.

    The Yemen Houthi rebellion (where Al Qaeda have been operating since 2001) and Syria are collateral damage from Iraq and Assad's brutality provoking a rebellion. Trump's official position is still that Assad must go, continuing Clinton-Obama's policy.

    Meanwhile, Hezbollah, Assad and Putin are murdering civilians in Syria, where "safe zones" have proved to be death traps, Turkey is at war with the Kurds, a new Civil War is building in Lebanon, and Israel and Iran are edging towards open war in Syria (and probably Lebanon, too). It is probably only a matter of time before ISIS cells take hold in Palestine or Gaza. Trump's main contribution has been to push Iran towards re-starting its nuclear programme, and heating up wars rather than damping them down.

    Trump also managed to alienate the Palestinians and blight any hopes, however slim, for a Peace Deal.

    You wanted Trump to get the job, now he has it. So he owns the problems, too. Blaming the last guy in job is a cop-out. How much was Obama allowed to get away with that one?

    If America "interfering in other countries" is the problem, then Trump is worse than Obama. Read his budget. What do you think "a more lethal, ready, and larger joint [military] force " means?
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  6. #56
    Mr. Blobby Mr. Blobby is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Trump supported the war in Iraq and was an early cheerleader for intervention in Libya. His only problems are that not enough oil was plundered to justify the expense.

    The Yemen Houthi rebellion (where Al Qaeda have been operating since 2001) and Syria are collateral damage from Iraq and Assad's brutality provoking a rebellion. Trump's official position is still that Assad must go, continuing Clinton-Obama's policy.

    Meanwhile, Hezbollah, Assad and Putin are murdering civilians in Syria, where "safe zones" have proved to be death traps, Turkey is at war with the Kurds, a new Civil War is building in Lebanon, and Israel and Iran are edging towards open war in Syria (and probably Lebanon, too). It is probably only a matter of time before ISIS cells take hold in Palestine or Gaza. Trump's main contribution has been to push Iran towards re-starting its nuclear programme, and heating up wars rather than damping them down.

    Trump also managed to alienate the Palestinians and blight any hopes, however slim, for a Peace Deal.

    You wanted Trump to get the job, now he has it. So he owns the problems, too. Blaming the last guy in job is a cop-out. How much was Obama allowed to get away with that one?

    If America "interfering in other countries" is the problem, then Trump is worse than Obama. Read his budget. What do you think "a more lethal, ready, and larger joint [military] force " means?
    So what if he supported it before his political life, so did the democrats. You're point here invalid.

    You don't want to comment on HRC/Obama's role in arming Syrian opposition which then morphed into the various flavours of Islamic extremism we see in Libya and Syria?

    Time will tell if Trump is worse than Obama, who by the way very often used Bush/Cheney as a scapegoat. You seem to think that Obama was an angel of some sort.

    Also, please find a post where I express my support for trump?
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  7. #57
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blobby View Post
    So what if he supported it before his political life, so did the democrats. You're point here invalid.

    You don't want to comment on HRC/Obama's role in arming Syrian opposition which then morphed into the various flavours of Islamic extremism we see in Libya and Syria?

    Time will tell if Trump is worse than Obama, who by the way very often used Bush/Cheney as a scapegoat. You seem to think that Obama was an angel of some sort.

    Also, please find a post where I express my support for trump?
    Obama supported a popular revolt in Libya and Syria. So did Trump, and still does.

    You can't "scapegoat" guilty men. Bush and Cheney were guilty men. Obama could have indicted them for war crimes, but chose not to in the interests of national unity. He may regret that now.

    Obama is the only one of Trump, Clinton, Bush or Cheney who opposed the Iraq war from the get-go. He was no angel, but he withdrew American troops from Iraq, and assembled the coalition that subsequently defeated ISIS, a coalition Trump also backed. I would never say I thought foreign policy was his strongest suit but at least he brought back together the US and its Allies after those relationships had been wrecked in the Bush years.

    You have just written a post that basically excuses Trump, so a rhetorical flourish about looking for your support of him is unnecessary.
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  8. #58
    Mr. Blobby Mr. Blobby is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Obama supported a popular revolt in Libya and Syria. So did Trump, and still does.

    You can't "scapegoat" guilty men. Bush and Cheney were guilty men. Obama could have indicted them for war crimes, but chose not to in the interests of national unity. He may regret that now.

    Obama is the only one of Trump, Clinton, Bush or Cheney who opposed the Iraq war from the get-go. He was no angel, but he withdrew American troops from Iraq, and assembled the coalition that subsequently defeated ISIS, a coalition Trump also backed. I would never say I thought foreign policy was his strongest suit but at least he brought back together the US and its Allies after those relationships had been wrecked in the Bush years.

    You have just written a post that basically excuses Trump, so a rhetorical flourish about looking for your support of him is unnecessary.
    Have Bush and Cheney been tried in court? What have they been found guilty of?

    Also your point of defeating ISIS, ISIS are not defeated. Their terrority has shrunk but their ideolgy remains, Obama was not responsable for territorial defeat if the USA & allies hadn't armed and trained "rebels" at the beginning of conflict, the country wouldn't know the devastation it has now. The rebels armed by the USA & allies morphed into various forms of radicial Islamic groups, including ISIS. You're also overlooking the role of Iran and Russia in the in the territorial defeat of ISIS.

    My post does not excuse Trump, I very much dislike the guy. Please be more careful of making false accusations about posters in the future.

    And again @Mods - ZOO this thread please.
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