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  1. #21
    USER1234 USER1234 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RasherHash View Post
    I smell another handy attack on Trump.

    Obama was 8 years in office and we're meant to believe he only butchered 3,400 women and children?

    You're only fooling yourself.
    Sorry Rasherhash, but again i believe the people on the ground, in the know over your figures or you wish for this to be some anti trump thing!
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  2. #22
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    I presume you are joking?

    Afghanistan is the US' longest war and Trump has turned it into a "forever war", which the US will achieve victory. There is no diplomatic effort accompanying the military effort. In fact, Trump has chosen to alienate Pakistan, something will will cause American lives. Not saying Pakistan is above reproach, but Trump's chosen method was boorish and counter-productive.

    Incidentally, the US has also pledged itself to a forever war against Iran in Syria, on behalf on Israel and Saudi Arabia. Direct and open conflict between Israel and Iran in Syria is only a few incidents away, and Lebanon is already tottering back to civil war. I hope Trump is enjoying his cheeseburgers.

    The death of ISIS has been greatly exaggerated. The Caliphate has been eliminated, and if any American can take credit, it is Barack Obama.

    But ISIS still exists as a terrorist force and now exists in Afghanistan, too. Its spread to Palestine and Gaza has probably already happened. If Trump is taking a victory lap over his ISIS "win", he is in for a rude shock.
    Trump doesnt believe in replaying the Iraq disaster of 2003-12. Bannon reportedly wanted to use contractors like the ones linked to Erik Prince, the brother of Betsy DeVos but McMaster said no.
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  3. #23
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Mac View Post
    So your arguing that Trump ranoed up military engagement across the world but so presumably the effects of that are Trump's effects.

    Although there was about a 30% increase under Trump against ISIS are you still maintaining that ISIS was defeated by Obama?

    It seems like Trump did ramp up enough to help break them. You'd surely agree that both made a contribution.
    Absolutely, I agree.

    Trump did make a major contribution, and you cannot take it away from him. He followed through with the offensive by Syrian Kurds and Iraqis initiated by Barack Obama. That is what destroyed the Caliphate and retook Falujah, Mosul and Raqqa.
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  4. #24
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Trump doesnt believe in replaying the Iraq disaster of 2003-12. Bannon reportedly wanted to use contractors like the ones linked to Erik Prince, the brother of Betsy DeVos but McMaster said no.
    Employ private mercenaries who would report directly to the President, so he could run a private war? And with Trump's attention span slightly shorter than a gnat's, how long before that got out of control?

    And Prince's forces have a stinking record for atrocities. After a few Abu Graib's, which no doubt Trump would applaud, I wonder how much support would be left from the people Trump is supposed to be liberating?

    I am not sure if a democratic system would be comfortable with Trump's Private Army, thank you.
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  5. #25
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Trump doesnt believe in replaying the Iraq disaster of 2003-12. Bannon reportedly wanted to use contractors like the ones linked to Erik Prince, the brother of Betsy DeVos but McMaster said no.
    Many minor disasters can be worse than a single major one. Can we assume that the US has the resources to engage in small wars all across the Middle East and North Africa (from Niger to Afghanistan), counter China in the South China Sea, oppose Russia in Ukraine, the Baltic and the Black Sea, support Israel in a Syrian war against Iran, and thwart North Korea's nuclear ambitions?

    Traditionally, the US has operating by leading coalitions of local, smaller powers - but that seems to be one thing that is left out of current US policy.

    The US military overseas could suffer the Death Of One Thousand Cuts. With no prioritisation of operations or policies, and Trump's indulgent commitment to the military all around the world, and his commitment to higher military spending, the US could end up sacrificing its position in the world because its own productive and tax-raising capacity are less than it needs for its military commitments.

    Exactly what happened to the Soviet Empire, and the British Empire before it. Almost every Empire in history, actually.
    Last edited by owedtojoy; 11th February 2018 at 05:23 PM.
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  6. #26
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wascurito View Post
    "On balance, it could be argued that, one year in, Trump has continued large swathes of Obama’s foreign policy, with more purpose, a lot more noise, but also – to a limited degree – more success. "

    gulftoday.ae | Mary Dejevksy: Surprisingly, Trump
    There was one thing refreshingly different about Barack Obama.

    He did not go around braying about "victory" or "mission accomplished", unlike his predecessor or his successor.

    I would say any "success" awarded to Trump is quite premature. Too early to say.
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  7. #27
    USER1234 USER1234 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    There was one thing refreshingly different about Barack Obama.

    He did not go around braying about "victory" or "mission accomplished", unlike his predecessor or his successor.

    I would say any "success" awarded to Trump is quite premature. Too early to say.
    especially since in the seven months of the Trump administration there have been more civilian deaths than in all the time President Obama was in office!
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  8. #28
    Wascurito Wascurito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    There was one thing refreshingly different about Barack Obama.

    He did not go around braying about "victory" or "mission accomplished", unlike his predecessor or his successor.

    I would say any "success" awarded to Trump is quite premature. Too early to say.
    True....especially given how one misguided tweet could re-open a multitude of cans of worms.
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  9. #29
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Zoo immediately
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  10. #30
    USER1234 USER1234 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    Zoo immediately
    for what reason?
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