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  1. #11
    JCR JCR is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by fat finger View Post
    The thing you have to remember is who President Trump was speaking to when he seems to have made those remarks, a junior member of the Bush family which was strongly opposing Trump even before the election, it's pretty clear Trump was winding the junior up, could see the way the young Bush was in thrall to his words, you'd have to be a saint to resist loading on the BS with such a punk squirming in awe at the outrageous claims of Trump, the person who comes off the leaking of the Trump recording, his one moment of fame and he tells the world he's not to be trusted, he sneakily records conversations, no one's ever going to trust him again, he'll be living off the family wealth for the rest of his days but he'll never make his own. For Trump it was of course a moment of weakness, manipulating a youngster like that for his own amusement, we've all done it to a lesser degree of course, and Trump surely regrets it now, but nobody should for a moment believe that what he was saying to titillate the junior Bush is an accurate tale of anything that actually happened
    Of course, he is such a nice guy, no one should ever suspect him of such a thing.
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  2. #12
    NYCKY NYCKY is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat finger View Post
    The thing you have to remember is who President Trump was speaking to when he seems to have made those remarks, a junior member of the Bush family which was strongly opposing Trump even before the election, it's pretty clear Trump was winding the junior up, could see the way the young Bush was in thrall to his words, you'd have to be a saint to resist loading on the BS with such a punk squirming in awe at your outrageous claims, the person who comes off worst from the leaking of this Trump recording is of course young Bush, his one moment of fame and he tells the world he's not to be trusted, he sneakily records conversations, no one's ever going to trust him again, he'll be living off the family wealth for the rest of his days but he'll never make his own. For Trump it was of course a moment of weakness, manipulating a youngster like that for his own amusement, we've all done it to a lesser degree of course, and Trump surely regrets it now, but nobody should for a moment believe that what he was saying to titillate the junior Bush is an accurate tale of anything that actually happened
    Trump had flirted with a Presidential run for decades but those comments were made in 2005, at the start of Bush Jr's second term, fully 10 years before Trump launched his own campaign. Not at all defending the comments, just pointing out a fact.
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  3. #13
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCKY View Post
    Trump had flirted with a Presidential run for decades but those comments were made in 2005, at the start of Bush Jr's second term, fully 10 years before Trump launched his own campaign. Not at all defending the comments, just pointing out a fact.
    Just like Clinton's behaviour, the words "speak to his character".

    Women reported exactly the behaviour boasted of by Trump (pussy-grabbing, unwanted kissing) right up to the present.

    With that attitude to women, and going by Republican (including Trump's) response to similar behaviour by Democrats, Trump must go.
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  4. #14
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwin View Post
    Note I hate Trump but can't resist pointing out inconsistencies.

    Trump was elected after all these allegations and furore had been well aired, i.e. the public decided it wasn't disqualifying. The same could not be said for Clinton in the late 90s. The main hypocricy on display here is Democrats who tolerated Clinton getting into a flap about similar or lesser charges about their opponents and secondly, Trump attacking Al Franken given his own issues and silence on Jude Roy Moore.
    So it is ok to molest women if people vote for you?

    Incidentally, that is exactly the position Sean Hannity is taking on Roy Moore - if people vote for Moore, then Moore's molesting of teenage girls is ok with him.

    Very similar to the attitude taken to Clinton - while the Lewinsky affair was being exposed in the press, Clinton reached 60% Job Approval. So what's your problem?
    Last edited by owedtojoy; 18th November 2017 at 08:31 AM.
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  5. #15
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post

    Certainly, if the Monica Lewinsky affair had come to light now, a sitting President would have to resign. No major company would tolerate its CEO bedding a young intern in his organisation. It is just sleazy.

    But 1999 was another matter - then the defence was that it was a "private affair", not affecting the performance of the President's constitutional duties. Indeed Clinton was not impeached for the affair, but for lying about it under oath, and the impeachment failed. The contrary argument was that the affair "spoke to his character", and his character was unworthy of a President.

    So the precedent established by Republicans then, and now by all, is that low sexual behaviour is unworthy of the Presidential office, and the office holder should resign.

    So why is Donald Trump still tolerated in office? Surely it is only a matter of time before he must step down?

    Stephen King ✔@StephenKing
    Trump on Franken: Pot discusses sins of the kettle.


    Trump’s Tweet Condemning Al Franken Assault Allegations Backfires Spectacularly
    Did he say this last year before the election, or did he keep his trap shut until Hillary was politically Dead and he could say it.
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  6. #16
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    So it is ok to molest women if people vote for you?

    Incidentally, that is exactly the position Sean Hannity is taking on Roy Moore - if people vote for Moore, then Moore's molesting of teenage girls is ok with him. Very similar to the attitude taken to Clinton - while the Lewinsky affair was being exposed in the press, Clinton reached 60% Job Approval. So what's your problem?
    No, but it's also not okay to be silent on a groper when it's politically expedient.

    And that's what the Democrats have done. So
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  7. #17
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Mac View Post
    Did he say this last year before the election, or did he keep his trap shut until Hillary was politically Dead and he could say it.
    A very situational approach to morality.

    Something is right or wrong only with reference to when it occurred?

    I thought right and wrong were timeless, and not dependent on context. The suggestion seems to be that it is ok to molest or verbally abuse women if a majority voted for you.
    Last edited by owedtojoy; 18th November 2017 at 09:33 AM.
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  8. #18
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Mac View Post
    No, but it's also not okay to be silent on a groper when it's politically expedient.

    And that's what the Democrats have done. So
    So .... I await your condemnation of Groper Trump, then.

    Incidentally, of groper President George H.W. Bush as well.
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  9. #19
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
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    The basic point is that there are not Democrat sexual abusers and Republican sexual abusers, and we should start considering the wrongs done (based on the evidence), not the politics.

    • Trump,
    • Roy Moore,
    • George H.W.Bush,
    • Congressman Denis Hastert (paedophile),
    • Senator David Vitter (user of prostitutes),
    • Congressman Tim Murphy (solicited his girlfriend to have an abortion),
    • Congressman Mark Foley (asked Congress page boys for sex),
    • Senator Larry Craig (arrested for soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom ..)

    Democrats have ...
    • Clinton,
    • Franken
    • Anthony Weiner (sexter),
    • Governor Eliot Spitzer (NY, user of prostitutes)


    I am all out of Democrat examples (no doubt someone else can supply a few I missed) but the trend is clear. There is no party monopoly on sexual purity.

    And it is moot how much sexual purity is a requirement. The French attitudes is that most men have mistresses anyway, so Meh.

    But unwanted groping, kissing, fondling, and verbal abuse should be ruled out, as should sleazy power relationships like sleeping with a lowly employee. There is a chance to clean up the entertainment industry and politics, where power relationships have been contaminated by sex, and contaminated them in turn.

    Let's not screw up the chance by making it political and partisan.
    Last edited by owedtojoy; 18th November 2017 at 10:08 AM.
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  10. #20
    Surkov Surkov is offline
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