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  1. #111
    Surkov Surkov is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Look, a sparrow!"
    Quote Originally Posted by President Bartlet View Post
    Fake news
    Huffington Post: The Framing of Al Franken by Two Trump Supporters

    This article from the 'liberal' media can only be described as an attempt to character assassinate the accusers. It begins by showing an image of one of the accusers clad in a bikini with the caption describing her as a 'playmate'.

    It is later implied that as a 'playmate' she would hardly have noticed a sexual assault; bizarre stuff from the Bill & Hillary loving Huffington Post.

    I wonder will p.ie 'liberals' condemn this article. Or will they go so far as to praise it?
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  2. #112
    Noble Guardian Noble Guardian is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    What i it with some men and entitlement? I just don't get it.
    Indeed. You could write a book about entitlement and its origins. My current pet theory is colonialism, but that's a different topic.

    Lynda Bellingham (the Oxo mum for those of a certain generation) was interviewed as part of he "It was alright in the 70's" show just before her death.

    She revealed to the programme that, as a young actress, Norman Wisdom once pressured her to put a pencil down her top for half an hour as part of a TV show gag (saying it would be hilarious) and that he deliberately "had a good fumble".

    To me this Franken story is similar; an experienced comic, seeing something as “hilarious” but neglecting to bring his presumed collaborator with him. There are parallels with the Brando/Bertolucci/ Schneider episode from “Last Tango in Paris”, where a scene was shot for dramatic effect in a way considered inappropriate to the young actress, but with which she felt obliged to agree.

    It’s completely different to the sexual power dynamics in other stories going around at the moment. This in no way absolves Franken, but perhaps puts his non-sexual inappropriate behaviour into some context.
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  3. #113
    Des Quirell Des Quirell is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    I hope it is, and yes you're right about being expected to put up with it - but it didn't begin in the 70s, it's just that that is when large numbers of women came into mixed workplaces.

    But I know my mother, who's nearly 75, has said that when she was a teenager in the countryside, old men would regularly try to grope girls, and it was just one of those things that girls had to put up with. It's a way of keeping women in their place, making sure they never feel entirely at ease in public spaces. Because of course if you got raped, it was mainly your own fault for being there. Ask George Hook, it's much the same logic.
    I started my career when workplace harassment was still rife.

    One factor in all of this (and someone mentioned banks above, which leads to this speculation) may have been the fact that women were obliged to leave certain employments on marriage (banks, civil service, semi-states and more). The result of this was that the women in the office were by definition single; more worryingly, they would not have the counsel and support of their more worldly elder sisters.
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  4. #114
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surkov View Post
    Huffington Post: The Framing of Al Franken by Two Trump Supporters

    This article from the 'liberal' media can only be described as an attempt to character assassinate the accusers. It begins by showing an image of one of the accusers clad in a bikini with the caption describing her as a 'playmate'.

    It is later implied that as a 'playmate' she would hardly have noticed a sexual assault; bizarre stuff from the Bill & Hillary loving Huffington Post.

    I wonder will p.ie 'liberals' condemn this article. Or will they go so far as to praise it?
    The Huff is a joke, just not very funny, and victim blaming is always wrong. Nothing to do with your paranoid delusions about 'Liberals'.
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  5. #115
    silverharp silverharp is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    Ok so you really are saying that some forms of consensual sex lead inevitably to sexual abuse and paedophilia.
    Prostitution too, one assumes? If not why not.
    Its clear you cant have an acceptable casting couch culture and it not go places you don't want it to. I cant see the close connection with prostitution? its too different to draw any useful parallels
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  6. #116
    Surkov Surkov is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    The Huff is a joke, just not very funny, and victim blaming is always wrong. Nothing to do with your paranoid delusions about 'Liberals'.
    So your reaction is any one who criticises the liberal media is 'paranoid'?

    Hmmm.
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  7. #117
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble Guardian View Post
    Indeed. You could write a book about entitlement and its origins. My current pet theory is colonialism, but that's a different topic.

    Lynda Bellingham (the Oxo mum for those of a certain generation) was interviewed as part of he "It was alright in the 70's" show just before her death.

    She revealed to the programme that, as a young actress, Norman Wisdom once pressured her to put a pencil down her top for half an hour as part of a TV show gag (saying it would be hilarious) and that he deliberately "had a good fumble".

    To me this Franken story is similar; an experienced comic, seeing something as “hilarious” but neglecting to bring his presumed collaborator with him. There are parallels with the Brando/Bertolucci/ Schneider episode from “Last Tango in Paris”, where a scene was shot for dramatic effect in a way considered inappropriate to the young actress, but with which she felt obliged to agree.

    It’s completely different to the sexual power dynamics in other stories going around at the moment. This in no way absolves Franken, but perhaps puts his non-sexual inappropriate behaviour into some context.
    Agreed - if this incident is all there is to it. I've seen it alleged that it wasn't though, and that there was more stuff in the dressing room.

    If so - and only if - then that would would put the allegations against Franken onto another level, much more like those against - well maybe not Weinstein who seems to have practically made it part of his work practices - but certainly some others against whom there are limited number of allegations, none involving actual sex.
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  8. #118
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surkov View Post
    So your reaction is any one who criticises the liberal media is 'paranoid'?

    Hmmm.
    No, my attitude is that anyone who uses Liberal as a trigger word is not acting in good faith.
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  9. #119
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
    Its clear you cant have an acceptable casting couch culture and it not go places you don't want it to. I cant see the close connection with prostitution? its too different to draw any useful parallels
    What you're ignoring is that the casting couch culture is abuse, and that the women who have "benefited" from it have also been victims. Because unless they deliberately seduced a poor man who had no intention of having sex with them, that's how the interview expected the "interview" to go.

    Oh wait. You do think those evil women seduced the poor men, you even used that word about Weinstein.
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  10. #120
    Surkov Surkov is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    No, my attitude is that anyone who uses Liberal as a trigger word is not acting in good faith.
    So you feel the Huffington Post is a genuinely liberal media outlet? I sure don't.

    Is criticism of liberal media automatically in bad faith and paranoid, according to your view? Hmmm.
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