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  1. #101
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
    its part of the culture of trading sex for favors , im sure the women that flirted/seduced him are happy enough if they got what they wanted
    I'm asking you what the link is with the subject under discussion, which is unwanted harassment and in some cases actual assault.
    Looks like you're hoping to get a little bit of the old victim blaming through under the radar again.

    It's funny that tonic thinks that the comment by Ardillaun is a problem for men, but seems to have no idea of just how damaging this sort of "same old same old" here is in women's eyes. Especially in the current context.
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  2. #102
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanieFitz View Post
    I cannot see Moore win at this stage, but who knows.

    Talk to women who worked in office environments, retail, anywhere really in the 70's/80's and even 90's and they will tell you that inappropriate behaviour, and worse, was rampant and they were expected to "take it" as it was only a "bit of fun"

    this is a defining era in respect to work place practices, a game changer and a lot of people (mainly men) must be a little nervous about things they did in the past. the work environment will change radically after this
    I hope it is, and yes you're right about being expected to put up with it - but it didn't begin in the 70s, it's just that that is when large numbers of women came into mixed workplaces.

    But I know my mother, who's nearly 75, has said that when she was a teenager in the countryside, old men would regularly try to grope girls, and it was just one of those things that girls had to put up with. It's a way of keeping women in their place, making sure they never feel entirely at ease in public spaces. Because of course if you got raped, it was mainly your own fault for being there. Ask George Hook, it's much the same logic.
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  3. #103
    silverharp silverharp is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    I'm asking you what the link is with the subject under discussion, which is unwanted harassment and in some cases actual assault.
    Looks like you're hoping to get a little bit of the old victim blaming through under the radar again.

    It's funny that tonic thinks that the comment by Ardillaun is a problem for men, but seems to have no idea of just how damaging this sort of "same old same old" here is in women's eyes. Especially in the current context.
    just getting the lay of the land as it were, it would be a little autistic to only talk about one side of the line in the sand as important as it in in terms of law etc. My initial point was highlighting a probably psych make up of Weinstein, an avowed feminist and as was pointed out "when someone says they are a male feminist you can start the clock on the rape allegations"
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  4. #104
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
    just getting the lay of the land as it were, it would be a little autistic to only talk about one side of the line in the sand as important as it in in terms of law etc. My initial point was highlighting a probably psych make up of Weinstein, an avowed feminist and as was pointed out "when someone says they are a male feminist you can start the clock on the rape allegations"
    That's not what you said though. You linked these allegations to women throwing themselves at him.

    Apart from anything else, is there any evidence that they ever did, in any numbers?

    And your talk now of "one side of the line" is disturbingly close to Trump's "fine people on both sides".
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  5. #105
    Prester Jim Prester Jim is offline
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    It is genuinely jarring seeing that photo of Franken, this is a man well into late middle age pretend-groping a woman and getting someone to take a photo. What a complete ass-hat, and he tries to appear so dignified now when you see him on the Bill Maher show. Wonder if he'll go on there now and explain himself while striving to appear statesmanlike. He should be ashamed of himself.
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  6. #106
    statsman statsman is offline
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    What is it with some men and entitlement? I just don't get it.
    Last edited by statsman; 17th November 2017 at 11:17 AM.
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  7. #107
    Prester Jim Prester Jim is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanieFitz View Post
    I cannot see Moore win at this stage, but who knows.

    Talk to women who worked in office environments, retail, anywhere really in the 70's/80's and even 90's and they will tell you that inappropriate behaviour, and worse, was rampant and they were expected to "take it" as it was only a "bit of fun"

    this is a defining era in respect to work place practices, a game changer and a lot of people (mainly men) must be a little nervous about things they did in the past. the work environment will change radically after this

    This is what I've heard too, banking was even worse, men would go up and grope women and get a cheer from some male colleagues in Nationwide under Fingers.
    From conversations with colleagues now, that is completely unheard of at this stage in post primary (although it obviously must still happen quietly), does still happen in tertiary and is a problem with student-lecturer relations. In hindsight I think it may have been an issue in industry on the factory floor, I never directly saw anything but I got the impression many of the girls didn't like a couple of the lads on the floor and would actively work to avoid them.
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  8. #108
    silverharp silverharp is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    That's not what you said though. You linked these allegations to women throwing themselves at him.

    Apart from anything else, is there any evidence that they ever did, in any numbers?

    And your talk now of "one side of the line" is disturbingly close to Trump's "fine people on both sides".
    well they are linked I'd imagine , a bit of a chicken and egg one. its not like you can possibly have a situation where sex is traded for favors but it wont go downhill and get even seedier. Hollywood is the perfect stomping ground for a rapist or pedophile.
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  9. #109
    showbandmanager showbandmanager is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prester Jim View Post
    It is genuinely jarring seeing that photo of Franken, this is a man well into late middle age pretend-groping a woman and getting someone to take a photo. What a complete ass-hat, and he tries to appear so dignified now when you see him on the Bill Maher show. Wonder if he'll go on there now and explain himself while striving to appear statesmanlike. He should be ashamed of himself.
    You're right , he should be ashamed of himself and the matter investigated.

    Donald Trump was 60 when he talked about how he could just grab women by the pussy because he was a big star . He was about the same age when making pervy remarks about his own daughter on tv.

    There are multiple allegations made by women against him .

    Wonder if he'll ever explain himself while striving to appear presidential . He should be ashamed of himself.
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  10. #110
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
    well they are linked I'd imagine , a bit of a chicken and egg one. its not like you can possibly have a situation where sex is traded for favors but it wont go downhill and get even seedier. Hollywood is the perfect stomping ground for a rapist or pedophile.
    Ok so you really are saying that some forms of consensual sex lead inevitably to sexual abuse and paedophilia.
    Prostitution too, one assumes? If not why not.
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