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  1. #21
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracethepirate View Post
    There’s a serious gerrymandering problem currently favouring the GOP at both state and federal level which may may be resolved by a case currently being considered by the Supreme Court.
    That's in Wisconsin isnt it?

    Viceland had a nice documentary about it. The GoP have software that models what way you need to distribute to get the results you need. They suggested it was a factor in the Dems losing states but I wonder about that. Virginia might put the lie to that
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  2. #22
    Niall996 Niall996 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    The Presidential election that elected an inexperienced, irresponsible, misogynistic male totalitarian when there was an experienced, competent female as an alternative is a defeat for women.

    Despite that obvious fact more than 50% of white American women voted for the inexperienced, irresponsible, misogynistic male totalitarian.

    That was pathetic and the women will pay for it for a long time to come.

    Democracy will also pay for it as totalitarianism is on the rise as the election of Trump shows.

    More than 50% of white women did this despite the fact that a competent and experienced woman was for the first time going for the most powerful political position in the world.

    The defeat of Hillary Clinton in the US presidential election is the most significant occurence in the women's lack of power issue for a long time.
    Actually, as I watch events unfold in terms of the Weinstein scandal, Weiner and others, there is definitely a shift happening towards better balance and respect fro womens rights I would have thought. It's inconceivable that the sort of activities that Kennedy and Clinton indulged in for example could happen today in the white house. Or that a wife of a president would tolerate such a thing. Trump's era is turning out to be quite good for women ironically.

    On the OP. Democrats out of the game for the next presidential election. Trump is a shoe in. They simply don't have anyone. It's really abut building someone for the following election at this point.
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  3. #23
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by the secretary View Post
    Have these gerrymandering conditions always been in place?
    There has been gerrymandering for decades if not centuries. Some of it has been Democrat (and a couple still are) bur at present the vast majority is GOP which uses database info to set its boundaries with utmost precision. Some has been racist but that has been banned by SCOTUS. Now it may ban partisan gerrymandering too. In a couple of states the dems have had a voting majority but have won only a third of the seats. This is wrong and undemocratic.
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  4. #24
    devoutcapitalist devoutcapitalist is offline

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    Surely Trump is beatable in 2020, the GOP are in a mess at the moment and I generally support the GOP but despise Trump.

    Will the Democrats go for a Trump style populist spoofer in 2020, If not Sanders then who is likely to be the candidate.

    I'm starting to think that Sanders could have beaten Trump last year.
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  5. #25
    devoutcapitalist devoutcapitalist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    Actually, as I watch events unfold in terms of the Weinstein scandal, Weiner and others, there is definitely a shift happening towards better balance and respect fro womens rights I would have thought. It's inconceivable that the sort of activities that Kennedy and Clinton indulged in for example could happen today in the white house. Or that a wife of a president would tolerate such a thing. Trump's era is turning out to be quite good for women ironically.

    On the OP. Democrats out of the game for the next presidential election. Trump is a shoe in. They simply don't have anyone. It's really abut building someone for the following election at this point.
    Assuming Johnson doesn't run and the Greens don't run a candidate in 2020, Trump will probably need to get to around 50% of the popular vote in 2020 to get re-elected compared to 46% last year.

    Who knows how the American economy is doing in 2020 plus the fact that many of his voters in the Rustbelt may have coped on that he was a snake oil salesman in 2016 regarding promising to bring back heavy industry jobs.

    The Dems can win in 2020 If they get a candidate who is not obsessed with trendy identity politics.
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  6. #26
    NYCKY NYCKY is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracethepirate View Post
    It's been mentioned a few times on various threads that the Dems need to get good candidates and speakers to help them win the 2018 mid-term Congressional and the 2020 POTUS elections. There are already good congressional candidates but the Dems real problems are lack of national leadership and lack of effective policies.

    HRC is a has-been on a book tour and speaking at various events by invitation and tweeting about Don "Capone" Trump, but it is likely she will be fading away into retirement; maybe she'll keep some backroom involvement with the Dems and the DNC, helping other candidates to fundraise, etc. This is notwithstanding Donna Brazile's recent comments on DNC funding and control about which there are already some statements countering hers.

    Who is getting the national media attention? HRC and Donna (for the next week or so), with a few bits and pieces from Elizabeth Warren, plus Bernie Sanders following his own agenda (as usual, and not getting all that far). Nancy Pelosi, as the Dems' leader of the House of Representatives, has started some policy proposals and slogans, and is trying to keep the Rep Dems in check (eg insisting that it is far too early for a call for impeachment) but although she is doing a good job, Nancy Pelosi is 76 yo and is not considered to be presidential material.

    And there are serious financial problems. After Obama's win in 2012 the Dems were in debt and at one point did not have enough money to pay staff. They owed US$20 million. HRC paid this debt and also paid both state organisations and Federal candidates money from her fundraising. Bernie chose to pay nothing, keeping his donations for his own use, and so did Obama(!).

    Something is wrong with the Dems' administration.

    There is an excellent, in depth article from the New York Times by Robert Draper which discusses the Dems' problems:

    A Post-Obama Democratic Party in Search of Itself
    The 44th president left office as one of the most popular in American history. He also left behind a party struggling to find an identity and to reconnect with voters in time for the 2018 elections.

    The problems are such that I do not think the Dems will be able to get their act together in time for 2018 or even 2020. Miracles do occur though...

    What do you think?
    I wouldn't get too depressed if I was you. The Democrats will come back, swings and roundabouts and all that.

    Yes, the Democrats are at their lowest level across the country in close to a century, they have been relegated to the Coasts and a few urban metro areas around the Great Lakes. The party can't go any lower.

    On the flip side, the GOP is in the best shape it's been in close to a century too but one year into the Trump Presidency, can't get anything done. That said, the stock market is roaring, unemployment is shrinking so he maybe around for a few more years.

    The Democrats will come back, it may take a few years, or another election cycle or two, maybe less but they aren't going away.
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  7. #27
    NYCKY NYCKY is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Bartlet View Post
    They need to start with fresh leadership in the House - Pelosi is utterly crap and useless
    She needs to go and take Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn and Maxine Waters with her. They are all in their 70s and it's time to pass the torch to a new generation.

    Pelosi is good at fundraising but not much else. As the first female Speaker, her place in history is assured but it's time to give a younger restless caucus a chance.
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  8. #28
    mr_anderson mr_anderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by devoutcapitalist View Post
    The Dems can win in 2020 If they get a candidate who is not obsessed with trendy identity politics.

    Indeed, however therein lies the problem.
    The DNC still hasn't woken up to reality.
    A few commentators have (e.g. Jimmy Dore), but the majority still have their heads firmly in the sand.
    The denial remains.

    They keep making excuses as to why Trump won.
    These range from Russia to racists.
    And, in my honest opinion, they were all irrelevant.

    Firstly, whilst Russia allegedly bombarded social media with ads, the vast bulk of demographic that voted for Trump is not the age group to be influenced by that medium.
    And if you believe racists elected him, then you have to believe they somehow didn't vote when a black candidate became president - twice. It's simply not plausible.

    The fact remains that Clinton was an appalling candidate who illegally gerrymandered her victory over Sanders.
    She was the face of an uber-establishment candidate at a time when there was a rich vein of anti-establishment feeling running through country.
    The Clinton Foundation reeked of corruption.
    And her health was severely questionable.

    What struck me the most though, was the release of emails proving how the 'neutral' DNC purposely took Clinton's side over Sanders.
    There should have been absolute outrage.
    Instead all the media focused on was who leaked the revelations.
    It was a 'shoot the messenger' exercise.
    Any party with a backbone would have conducted an immediate review and thrown Clinton overboard.
    But they didn't.
    And today, they still wouldn't.
    Which is why, so far, I don't think they learned their lesson.
    It's still the same corrupt party.
    Yes, there are moves to change it. But I've yet to be convinced it will succeed.
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  9. #29
    NYCKY NYCKY is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Actually, she is not. She was a far more effective House Speaker than Boehner or Ryan. Her part in passing the Affordable Care Act and Obama's programme is second only to Obama himself.

    And to change to satisfy Republican hate-mongering would be a massive mistake.

    By the way, she re-took the House from the Republicans in 2006, when the pundits said it could not be done. And held it in 2008. The lady has form.

    That being said, it is time for a new generation of Democrats to start stepping up.
    2006 and 2008 were bumper years for the Democrats, you would be hard pressed to find a defeated incumbent in either of those years for the main elections.

    Pelosi was widely expected to ascend to the Speakership after the 2006 elections. You had the Iraq war and Hurricane Katrina, and add a few messy sex scandals for the GOP and very few thought that the GOP would hold either house of Congress.

    Those two elections (2006 and 2008) were Gimmies for the Democrats, they just needed to not get caught in bed with dead girls or live boys.
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  10. #30
    NYCKY NYCKY is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    The Presidential election that elected an inexperienced, irresponsible, misogynistic male totalitarian when there was an experienced, competent female as an alternative is a defeat for women.

    Despite that obvious fact more than 50% of white American women voted for the inexperienced, irresponsible, misogynistic male totalitarian.

    That was pathetic and the women will pay for it for a long time to come.

    Democracy will also pay for it as totalitarianism is on the rise as the election of Trump shows.

    More than 50% of white women did this despite the fact that a competent and experienced woman was for the first time going for the most powerful political position in the world.

    The defeat of Hillary Clinton in the US presidential election is the most significant occurence in the women's lack of power issue for a long time.
    Has it ever occurred to you that many women don't vote with their vaginas, much like most men don't vote with their penises?
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