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  1. #1
    cropbeye cropbeye is offline

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    Issue not to be avoided;

    A question not to be avoided by the left;

    One question that needs to be addressed in an honest manner is the matter of community defense.
    For the most part the struggle ahead will be peacefull direct action, strikes, boycotts, occupations mass rallies civil disobedience -
    perhaps some electoralism as a parallel proccess but by far the least important.
    However if mass mobilisation of people happens and many more people get involved in radical action this movement will sooner or later come in the path of the full force of the backlash-of police judiciary permenant Government mainstream politicians bankers and other agencies. These forces will use everything to protect the status quo. So as ordinary people gain some concessions or defeat the Government on some issues or become partly liberated and gradually come close to winning more leverage on power it will only get worse.
    The more workers progress the more full on the draconian will be the reaction. At first censorship and low level intimidation soon escalates to beatings imprisonment and criminalisation. So eventually there will be a point that it will be unavoidable for people to use armed force to defend communiities.
    I believe the global economic conditions and especially in Europe will be unstable or shaky for the next ten to fifteen years. At times there will seem to be recovery and short term economic development and growth. Then and only then will the mass of people have to be ready to defend themselves. If they do not the far right can fill the vacumn or the establishment become the far right.
    I am not talking about a few guys in an old style phone box forming self appointed conspiratorial army councils or liberation fronts. I would totally oppose that. However we should be honest now in sayng it will be necessary for people to defend themselves; probably not for ten or fifteen years from now but such provisions cannot be created over night. So people on the left need to be actively thinking about contingencies.
    Gradually once people have founded strong community based organizations that exist on trust can slowly but surely move towards sensible preparations for a set of security precautions. The system cannot be simply overturned by force but gains by ordinary people in communities can be defended in the face of provocation. This would have to be approached very carefully and reluctantly but we cannot for a minute deny that it will eventually be necessary.
    This is critical for any left group today. Not putting the cart before the horse but being realistic about the medium term future.
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  2. #2
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Don't worry, Labour have the Left flank covered:

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  3. #3
    Kev408 Kev408 is offline

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    What struggle?
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  4. #4
    Mr. Bumble Mr. Bumble is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    Don't worry, Labour have the Left flank covered:

    Isn't that Keith M on top?
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  5. #5
    gloria gloria is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    Don't worry, Labour have the Left flank covered:

    Wow is right.. I'm not easily startled, it's just the expression on the labourers face..
    'it'll be over shortly and then I can forget this ever happened..'
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  6. #6
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gloria View Post
    Wow is right.. I'm not easily startled, it's just the expression on the labourers face..
    'it'll be over shortly and then I can forget this ever happened..'
    Hee hee hee heee.

    Yea, or maybe he's loving it?
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  7. #7
    gloria gloria is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    Hee hee hee heee.

    Yea, or maybe he's loving it?
    If it wasn't for the fact that we have all seen it..!
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  8. #8
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by cropbeye View Post
    a question not to be avoided by the left;

    one question that needs to be addressed in an honest manner is the matter of community defense.
    For the most part the struggle ahead will be peacefull direct action, strikes, boycotts, occupations mass rallies civil disobedience -
    perhaps some electoralism as a parallel proccess but by far the least important.
    However if mass mobilisation of people happens and many more people get involved in radical action this movement will sooner or later come in the path of the full force of the backlash-of police judiciary permenant government mainstream politicians bankers and other agencies. These forces will use everything to protect the status quo. So as ordinary people gain some concessions or defeat the government on some issues or become partly liberated and gradually come close to winning more leverage on power it will only get worse.
    The more workers progress the more full on the draconian will be the reaction. At first censorship and low level intimidation soon escalates to beatings imprisonment and criminalisation. So eventually there will be a point that it will be unavoidable for people to use armed force to defend communiities.
    I believe the global economic conditions and especially in europe will be unstable or shaky for the next ten to fifteen years. At times there will seem to be recovery and short term economic development and growth. Then and only then will the mass of people have to be ready to defend themselves. If they do not the far right can fill the vacumn or the establishment become the far right.
    I am not talking about a few guys in an old style phone box forming self appointed conspiratorial army councils or liberation fronts. I would totally oppose that. However we should be honest now in sayng it will be necessary for people to defend themselves; probably not for ten or fifteen years from now but such provisions cannot be created over night. So people on the left need to be actively thinking about contingencies.
    Gradually once people have founded strong community based organizations that exist on trust can slowly but surely move towards sensible preparations for a set of security precautions. The system cannot be simply overturned by force but gains by ordinary people in communities can be defended in the face of provocation. This would have to be approached very carefully and reluctantly but we cannot for a minute deny that it will eventually be necessary.
    This is critical for any left group today. Not putting the cart before the horse but being realistic about the medium term future.
    nnnnuuuuuurrrrrssseeeee!
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  9. #9
    Mr. Bumble Mr. Bumble is offline
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    It occurs to me that, more than any other ideology, the far left sacrifices the very people it is professes to defend in the pursuit of dogmatic purity.
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  10. #10
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bumble View Post
    It occurs to me that, more than any other ideology, the far left sacrifices the very people it is professes to defend in the pursuit of dogmatic purity.
    Yea, the holy grail of utopian Leftism.

    It has its merits but some on the Left need to remember it's an ideal - we may move towards it (hopefully) but we never actually arrive!
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