World Socialist website attacks ULA for being part of the establishment!

[Ren84]

If you really think that sf is in any way a left wing group, then you need to see a specialist in delusions!

See my previous post. Any evidence to suggest they are not right wing would be nice.

[james5001]

Left of me.

Once I scrape through the light veneer, it all becomes apparent.

[james5001]

they are members of parliament how are they not establishment.

Establishment could also be described as ''institutional authority'' or the existing power structure in society. I don't know how sf really are part of the establishment.

[antiestablishmentarian]

You mean SF? I don't recall their name consisting on the letter P.

But of course they're a left wing party. Granted, not as to the left as their sticky cousins. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?

They're implementing austerity in the North on behalf of the Tories. Whatever about the journey certain 'sticks' have taken I don't believe for one moment MacGiolla, Garland or Goulding would have done that.

As for the WSWS, I find it highly amusing for them to attack the ULA when they have been accused by many others on the left as being a damaging group intent on sabotaging others groups and dividing the movement.

WSWS (World Socialist Web Site) termed "sick and reactionary" by Marxists for anti-union disruption - Democratic Underground

[Ren84]

They're implementing austerity in the North on behalf of the Tories. Whatever about the journey certain 'sticks' have taken I don't believe for one moment MacGiolla, Garland or Goulding would have done that.

This lie is brought up repeatedly by those with no grasp of the politics of the northern state. Stormont is a glorified county council. SF, along with the other parties, have no power over revenue raising. They are dependent on hand outs from the UK Treasury. What would you want SF to do? They have to work with the meager funds available to them.

As for the WSWS, I find it highly amusing for them to attack the ULA when they have been accused by many others on the left as being a damaging group intent on sabotaging others groups and dividing the movement.

WSWS (World Socialist Web Site) termed "sick and reactionary" by Marxists for anti-union disruption - Democratic Underground

Socialists attacking other socialists? Who'd have thought it? The only consistent theme running through the world socialist movement is their ability to attack each other over the most trivial and banal of things.

Look at the Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party here in Ireland. They have identical aims and objectives but refuse to work together because the Socialists believe in bringing about a workers republic from within by gaining power in elections. Yet the Socialist Workers believe a workers republic can only come about through mass organising the workers outside the political system taking control. Utterly ridiculous!

And what has this fragmentation achieved? Absolutely nothing! Hence my frustration with the Socialist movement and why I abandoned it long ago.

Let's have a quick overview of all these disparate groupings in Ireland.

Socialist Party
Socialist Workers Party
Workers Party (what would the Socialist Party and Workers Party be called if they merged? )
People before Profit
Communist Party of Ireland
Irish Republican Socialist Party
Irish Socialist Network
éirígí
Workers Solidarity Movement

I'm sure others can add to this incomplete list.

[antiestablishmentarian]

[QUOTE=Ren84;4902019]

This lie is brought up repeatedly by those with no grasp of the politics of the northern state. Stormont is a glorified county council. SF, along with the other parties, have no power over revenue raising. They are dependent on hand outs from the UK Treasury. What would you want SF to do? They have to work with the meager funds available to them.

This is the same line Fine Gael use. They could always withdraw from the Stormont Assembly and refuse to implement cuts and privatisations if they were a serious left wing party. Not being in powersharing doesn't necessarily mean a return to violence or a collapse of the Assembly, SF can always stay in as an opposition party.

Socialists attacking other socialists? Who'd have thought it? The only consistent theme running through the world socialist movement is there ability to attack each other over the most trivial and banal of things.

Actually the allegations against the WSWS and the SEP are quite serious and not banal or trivial in the least- they involve very important questions about the orientation of the left to the trade union movement.

Look at the Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party here in Ireland. They have identical aims and objectives but refuse to work together because the Socialists believe in bringing about a workers republic from within by gaining power in elections. Yet the Socialist Workers believe a workers republic can only come about through mass organising the workers outside the political system taking control. Utterly ridiculous!

Thats rubbish Ren, neither of the parties believe in electoral politics or reformism. They differ quite substantially on issues of tactics and strategy, in fact I would say there is far more of a difference between them and others on the left than there is between FG and FF. Indeed a quick look at the positions of different organisations on the left with regard to the national question would be enough to prove my point.

And what has this fragmentation achieved? Absolutely nothing! Hence my frustration with the Socialist movement and why I abandoned it long ago.

The ULA is a response to that fragmentation. ost of the groups you mention are either part of the ULA or working fraternally with them.

Let's have a quick overview of all these disparate groupings in Ireland.

Socialist Party
Socialist Workers Party
Workers Party (what would the Socialist Party and Workers Party be called if they merged )
People before Profit
Communist Party of Ireland
Irish Republican Socialist Party
Irish Socialist Network
éirígí
Workers Solidarity Movement

There are actually quite large and diverse differences between many of these organisations. I'd suggest you read up on them and educate yourselves as to why they exist and the different ideas they put forward.

[khavakoz]

As for the WSWS, I find it highly amusing for them to attack the ULA when they have been accused by many others on the left as being a damaging group intent on sabotaging others groups and dividing the movement.

WSWS (World Socialist Web Site) termed "sick and reactionary" by Marxists for anti-union disruption - Democratic Underground

Clue is in the name there antidiblah - a bunch of Marxist/Leninists complaining about a bunch of Trot/Internationalists.

WSWS is a publication of the International Committee of the Fourth International - A Faction of a Fraction of latterday Trotskyists who have been through more splits than a geriatric gymnast. Marxists would always be complaining about them, regardless of what they might actually say

[cathalbrugha]

This lie is brought up repeatedly by those with no grasp of the politics of the northern state. Stormont is a glorified county council. SF, along with the other parties, have no power over revenue raising. They are dependent on hand outs from the UK Treasury. What would you want SF to do? They have to work with the meager funds available to them.



Socialists attacking other socialists? Who'd have thought it? The only consistent theme running through the world socialist movement is their ability to attack each other over the most trivial and banal of things.

Look at the Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party here in Ireland. They have identical aims and objectives but refuse to work together because the Socialists believe in bringing about a workers republic from within by gaining power in elections. Yet the Socialist Workers believe a workers republic can only come about through mass organising the workers outside the political system taking control. Utterly ridiculous!

And what has this fragmentation achieved? Absolutely nothing! Hence my frustration with the Socialist movement and why I abandoned it long ago.

Let's have a quick overview of all these disparate groupings in Ireland.

Socialist Party
Socialist Workers Party
Workers Party (what would the Socialist Party and Workers Party be called if they merged? )
People before Profit
Communist Party of Ireland
Irish Republican Socialist Party
Irish Socialist Network
éirígí
Workers Solidarity Movement

I'm sure others can add to this incomplete list.

One of the problems with the 'left groups' in Ireland,is that 'spooks' have always infiltrated them easily enough and caused mayhem-Eamon Collins,ex-IRA volunteer pointed this out in his bio-'Killing Rage' when he said he was approached by a member of an 'Internationalist Marxist Group' who told him he believed that the 'IRA' should have wiped out the 'INLA'.An Agent Provacateur.Groups like these use 'protest groups',tas flag of convenience to gather information and cause disruptions, whilst at the same time appearing to be 'radical' and 'genuine'.One bad apple can rot an entire barrel.

[Raketemensch]

They forgot to mention that the ULA are the only 'leftist' party in the world that calls for the taxpayers to bail out property owners who don't feel like paying their mortgages anymore.

That's the great thing about socialism, it's kind of a franchise model so different national branches can criticise one another. We know everything here is a 'bit Irish', including our socialists but our homegrown liberal capitalist parties don't get subjected to similar lashing from abroad because it's not branded the same way. Life's a b1tch

[Bebel]

The world socialist website is run by trotzkyte idiots who have done nothing for socialism but dividing the left. The one right thing Stalin ever did was getting that lunatic Trotzky killed with an ice-pick.