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  1. #1
    jmcc jmcc is offline

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    Sturgeon's IndyRef2 letter - A declaration of independence?

    Sturgeon has sent the letter to May formally requesting the transfer of powers to Scotland to hold the second Scottish Independence referendum.

    Sturgeon in formal request over independence vote

    The letter is quite interesting in that it anticipates the reluctance of May to allow the request.

    "However, in anticipation of your refusal to enter into discussions at this stage, it is important for me to be clear about my position.
    It is my firm view that the mandate of the Scottish Parliament must be respected and progressed. The question is not if, but how."


    Now the next few lines might be upsetting for some as it is, in effect, the declaration of an intention to proceed anyway:

    "I hope that will be by constructive discussion between our governments.
    However, if that is not yet possible, I will set out to the Scottish Parliament the steps I intend to take to ensure that progress is made towards a referendum."


    https://static.rasset.ie/documents/n...e-minister.pdf
    Could this be Scotland standing up as a nation? Or is it just reading too much into a bit of polite chit-chat?
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  2. #2
    Prof Honeydew Prof Honeydew is offline

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    This may be one possible path the Scots are looking at:

    Catalonia leader vows 2017 referendum on Spain independence - BBC News

    It is highly likely that the SNP and the Catalan government have been in discussions with each other, not just on their objectives but also on the means to obtain them over the resistance of the Spanish and British regimes. The Catalans have made detailed preparations for a de facto independence should the Spanish government refuse to recognise the legitimacy of an independence referendum likely to be called next September.

    The surefooted manner in which the Holyrood administration has conducted its affairs with Westminster ever since the Brexit referendum suggests that the Scots are also working to a detailed plan to hold an independence referendum at a time of their choosing. So far, Nicola Sturgeon has run rings around Theresa May as she has goaded the British Prime Minister into refusing to recognise Scotland's vote to remain in the EU, refusing to involve any meaningful Scottish input into the Brexit negotiations with the EU and ruling out another independence referendum in the foreseeable future. This and the ignorantly disrespectful performance of May and her Tory rednecks during the House of Commons Article 50 debate last Wednesday has stoked up Scottish resentment against Little Englander intransigence.

    These are just the opening shots. The real contest is only starting to unfold. However, May and her government got another kick in the goolies in yesterday's Donald Tusk reply to the Article 50 notification. Britain's natural ally in resisting Scottish demands for independence should be Spain but the pair are now at each other's throats following the inclusion of the status of Gibraltar in the EU's Article 50 agenda.

    I wonder did Tusk or Juncker or the French or maybe even ourselves get a fiendish pleasure out of adding the Spanish demand to the EU's list of issues which have to be sorted out before any British post-Brexit deal with the EU can be discussed?
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  3. #3
    derryman derryman is online now

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    Brexit and Britain’s delusions of empire

    http://flip.it/oLaBmf


    This article seems appropriate for here. How can a second empire be built without Scotland.
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  4. #4
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    No. A declaration of DEPENDENCE.

    It is 2017, & it is obvious that the imperial racket of the day is the EU imperial monstrosity.

    The SNP are Scotland's answer to the Bertie Party.

    Splurge on debt, waste, obedience to Brussels, & sell it as a country's destiny.

    A collection of gangsters who will bankrupt Scotland.
    Last edited by Analyzer; 1st April 2017 at 08:45 AM.
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  5. #5
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    This is terrible news for Scotland's surviving Catholic population.
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  6. #6
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof Honeydew View Post
    This may be one possible path the Scots are looking at:

    Catalonia leader vows 2017 referendum on Spain independence - BBC News

    It is highly likely that the SNP and the Catalan government have been in discussions with each other, not just on their objectives but also on the means to obtain them over the resistance of the Spanish and British regimes. The Catalans have made detailed preparations for a de facto independence should the Spanish government refuse to recognise the legitimacy of an independence referendum likely to be called next September.

    The surefooted manner in which the Holyrood administration has conducted its affairs with Westminster ever since the Brexit referendum suggests that the Scots are also working to a detailed plan to hold an independence referendum at a time of their choosing. So far, Nicola Sturgeon has run rings around Theresa May as she has goaded the British Prime Minister into refusing to recognise Scotland's vote to remain in the EU, refusing to involve any meaningful Scottish input into the Brexit negotiations with the EU and ruling out another independence referendum in the foreseeable future. This and the ignorantly disrespectful performance of May and her Tory rednecks during the House of Commons Article 50 debate last Wednesday has stoked up Scottish resentment against Little Englander intransigence.

    These are just the opening shots. The real contest is only starting to unfold. However, May and her government got another kick in the goolies in yesterday's Donald Tusk reply to the Article 50 notification. Britain's natural ally in resisting Scottish demands for independence should be Spain but the pair are now at each other's throats following the inclusion of the status of Gibraltar in the EU's Article 50 agenda.

    I wonder did Tusk or Juncker or the French or maybe even ourselves get a fiendish pleasure out of adding the Spanish demand to the EU's list of issues which have to be sorted out before any British post-Brexit deal with the EU can be discussed?
    Well Sturgeon would want a bit more wind in her sails before she sets out to sea again on another Referendum

    - the SNP lost the last one when they were confidant of winning it.....

    Scotland leaving the UK would put the Tory Party in Power in England for perpetuity....
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  7. #7
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    This is terrible news for Scotland's surviving Catholic population.
    Why?
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  8. #8
    Vega1447 Vega1447 is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    This is terrible news for Scotland's surviving Catholic population.
    MoreFides than Ratio there.

    Are you seriously suggesting that Scottish Catholics are threatened by Indy?

    Strange that the Orange Order in Scotland are virulently opposed to it.
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  9. #9
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    Why?
    Because Scottish Prods are violently Anti-Catholic, there was more support for the Loyalist Paramilitaries in Scotland than there was among the Ulster PUL, let us remember that the SNP has it's roots in the Orange Order.
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  10. #10
    Vega1447 Vega1447 is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    Well Sturgeon would want a bit more wind in her sails before she sets out to sea again on another Referendum

    - the SNP lost the last one when they were confidant of winning it.....

    Scotland leaving the UK would put the Tory Party in Power in England for perpetuity....
    Why should Scots worry what parties govern England post Indy? An odd argument against independence.

    In fact of course, political nature abhors a vacuum and (like in SA) a hegemonic party eventually splits.
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