View Poll Results: If you lived in Scotland how would you vote on Referendum day?

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  • Yes for independence

    245 80.86%
  • No to keep the Union

    52 17.16%
  • I wouldn't vote

    6 1.98%
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  1. #5131
    alaimacerc alaimacerc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    1. The SNP are ridiculous to claim the UK wouldn't be permitted to have security borders.
    At what point have they made such a claim? AFAIK almost all comment on this has simply been on the lines of "seems unlikely, by a) analogy with Ireland, and b) common sense."

    2. Miliband is ridiculous to just throw it out there. It's a 96 mile border ffs.
    Having look at the "story" on the Mail website, there's (as I suspected) very little to this. "The border would have to be looked at." [leading question about 'guards'] "Would have to be looked at." Though why he's even humouring the Mail would cause one to wonder... "... why?"

    Much more incendiary in content is the "Downing Street source" that's putting a "Floods of immigrants! We'll force them to join Schengen, then complain about the consequences of their having joined Schengen!" spin on things. But at least that "source" had the sense to keep off the record with such bad-faith race-baiting.
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  2. #5132
    Rausmaus Von Schnellkat Rausmaus Von Schnellkat is offline

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    It is just about the right time for that weirdo with the weird hair- and I don't mean Boris Johnson- to come out and propose putting the army on the streets of Glasgow. Former Tory whip with a hairpiece like a bad blonde Andrew Lloyd Webber wig.

    Believe me there are at least three or four shire-knights who could come out with something like that at any given moment.

    If I were an Editor now I'd be hunting down such quote-Klondykes like a weasel on speed.
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  3. #5133
    Northtipp Northtipp is offline

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    It's not the numbers, it's the momentum. Good for the yes side. They , Jimmy McGuinness like, stuck with the game plan.
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  4. #5134
    Sync Sync is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaimacerc View Post
    At what point have they made such a claim? AFAIK almost all comment on this has simply been on the lines of "seems unlikely, by a) analogy with Ireland, and b) common sense."


    Having look at the "story" on the Mail website, there's (as I suspected) very little to this. "The border would have to be looked at." [leading question about 'guards'] "Would have to be looked at." Though why he's even humouring the Mail would cause one to wonder... "... why?"

    Much more incendiary in content is the "Downing Street source" that's putting a "Floods of immigrants! We'll force them to join Schengen, then complain about the consequences of their having joined Schengen!" spin on things. But at least that "source" had the sense to keep off the record with such bad-faith race-baiting.
    And Mr Miliband’s spokesman added last night: ‘The last time I looked there were two sides to the border – and we would be in charge of one of them. It would be up to us, not Mr Salmond, to secure our northern border.’
    A Downing Street source backed Mr Miliband, saying: ‘All the research shows that if there is a material difference between the immigration policy adopted by an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK, then border controls would have to be introduced.’
    Which is pretty reasonable. Scotland need immigrants, the UK are phobic about it, and genuinely do have people literally rioting to try and get into the country.

    Mr Salmond’s SNP has insisted that a separate Scotland would be part of a common, free movement area with the rest of the UK and Ireland.
    Scottish Independence: SNP's Alex Salmond Wants Immigration Green Card System

    "Scotland's differing demographic and migration needs mean that the UK immigration system has not served our interests," the document said.

    "This government plans, following independence, a points-based immigration system targeted at particular Scottish needs. The system will enable us to meet the needs of Scottish society with greater flexibility.

    "It could provide incentives to migrants who move to live and work in remoter geographical areas - assisting with community sustainability, or adding new categories of skills."

    The paper also said Scotland would remain part of Common Travel Area that exists between the United Kingdom, Channel Islands and Republic of Ireland.
    So he wants a different, more generous immigration system to the UK. Why wouldn't the UK be concerned about that? Isn't it perfectly natural to be concerned about it?

    Oh and he's telling Ireland what our border security will be like as well. That's nice of him.
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  5. #5135
    Rausmaus Von Schnellkat Rausmaus Von Schnellkat is offline

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    I'm sure Pamela Izvabekhai is following this debate with interest from her suburban home in Nigeria.
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  6. #5136
    Glaucon Glaucon is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Oh and he's telling Ireland what our border security will be like as well. That's nice of him.
    No he didn't. And Ireland does not have the same immigration system as the UK. Scotland will, of course, remain part of the CTA.
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  7. #5137
    Sync Sync is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucon View Post
    No he didn't.
    He very clearly did. Not that they'd apply for it, not that they'd request extension, he stated, as fact, that Ireland and Scotland would have a CTA. Which y'know....isn't just up to him. And it's a repeating trend with him. Scotland will be in the EU. Doesn't matter what the heads of the EU say. Scotland will be in Sterling union. Doesn't matter what Wesminster says. Scotland will be in CTA with Ireland. Won't even bother asking us.
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  8. #5138
    Rausmaus Von Schnellkat Rausmaus Von Schnellkat is offline

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    If Scotland votes 'yes' then these issues will be resolved. Which when you think about it is the logical way around.

    And never mind the bleatings of clerks about uncertainty. Thats why clerks are clerks and leaders are leaders.
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  9. #5139
    Rausmaus Von Schnellkat Rausmaus Von Schnellkat is offline

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    I quite like the way Salmond is rightly not falling into the trap of attempting to resolve all issues post a 'yes' vote before the vote has actually taken place. If it was up to the clerks we'd still be in the Union purely because they'd have rejected the uncertainty that comes with change.

    Sometimes leaders just have to sound the charge and worry about the baggage train later.

    Salmond is right to avoid answering the 'what about my cat's nerves' questions from those who always think the sky is about to fall in when change is mentioned.
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  10. #5140
    alaimacerc alaimacerc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Hank Tree View Post
    The fact that such bribes are only being made now may also be indicative of how costly they are. There's a reason they are only being offered now.
    No, that's because of sheer complacency and the stupid, obstructionist, anti-democratic "take manslaughter off the table" jury-manipulation strategy. Which is pretty much what you'd expect with the Tories in charge, on all counts.

    Federalisation for Scotland would lead to demands for same in other parts of England and Wales.
    I certainly hope so, because a lop-sided "federation" of just S and rUK, or even of the "constituent countries" would make no practical sense in terms of the actual residual-federal aspects. Every properly-operating federation has a largish number of "subjects", and vaguely comparable size of such -- or at least, a certain range of sizes, and not one dominant component larger than everything else put together.

    Billy Bragg said that perhaps this process might be a bit like your neighbour getting a conservatory. You didn't want one before, but now you can't help but think of it. (Or in the case of the North East, a salesman tried to sell you one before, and the local Tory yobs said it was a waste of money, and they'd throw bricks through the windows.) English regions with real democracy and real powers would make tremendous sense.
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