Bertie's Monies - Ins and Outs

[Norfolk Enchants]

Could somebody please provide a summary! of all the ins-and outs to Bertie's account relevant to the Mahon Tribunal i.e I understand that 2.5 times his salary went in to his account and I also heard a figure of £256,000.

I'm a bit confused about all these monies going about. Is this at the same time that Bertie was in dire straights and "begging" for digouts in Manchester?

[Auditor #9]

There's a thread in the Digouts Forum
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=32143
which goes towards explaining it a bit.

Maybe you should revive it a bit. If someone like toxic is around you might get a good account of the accounts. Of the accountantless accountant of the country's accounts.

[Norfolk Enchants]

There's a thread in the Digouts Forum
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=32143
which goes towards explaining it a bit.

Maybe you should revive it a bit. If someone like toxic is around you might get a good account of the accounts. Of the accountantless accountant of the country's accounts.

Wikpedia have a nice chronology of Berite's 2007 to the present:

7 Taoiseach 2007–present
8 Controversy
8.1 Admission of undeclared payments
8.2 'No bank account'
8.3 Payment in relation to house
8.4 Money from developer
8.5 Payment to refurbish property managed by Celia Larkin
8.5.1 Money given to Celia Larkin
8.6 Appearance at the Mahon Planning Tribunal
9 Tax Clearance Certificate
9.1 Pay-rises

[pfkf1]

here is the full list: dates and all

30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O'Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson
25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account
8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters
11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)
5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts-28,000 and 22,000) transferred from B. Ahern's account to C Larkin account (CL1)
5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2)
(equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account
27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA
15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2
19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on House
22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and £10,000 stg (£IR 9742.74)
24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern's deposit account (equates to £20,000 stg)

New A/Cs Feb '08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000


In total the whole lot equates to 500,000 Euros in todays money, and hardly any of it has a credible explanations.

[adrem]

here is the full list: dates and all

30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O'Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson
25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account
8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters
11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)
5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts-28,000 and 22,000) transferred from B. Ahern's account to C Larkin account (CL1)
5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2)
(equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account
27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA
15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2
19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on House
22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and £10,000 stg (£IR 9742.74)
24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern's deposit account (equates to £20,000 stg)

New A/Cs Feb '08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000


In total the whole lot equates to 500,000 Euros in todays money, and hardly any of it has a credible explanations.

Using your sums if I transfer 5k from a savings account to a current account and back 5 times I have 50,000 sloshing around in my accounts !!

Original post an obvious troll - unless you are going to link to the tribunal evidence of Bertie begging for handouts in Manchester

[tonys]

here is the full list: dates and all

30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O'Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson
25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account
8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters
11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)
5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts-28,000 and 22,000) transferred from B. Ahern's account to C Larkin account (CL1)
5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2)
(equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account
27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA
15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2
19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on House
22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and £10,000 stg (£IR 9742.74)
24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern's deposit account (equates to £20,000 stg)

New A/Cs Feb '08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000


In total the whole lot equates to 500,000 Euros in todays money, and hardly any of it has a credible explanations.

Facts as established
Total monies given to Ahern for his personal use, IR£42388.00 = €53832.00

[Coles]

here is the full list: dates and all

30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O'Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson
25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account
8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters
11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)
5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts-28,000 and 22,000) transferred from B. Ahern's account to C Larkin account (CL1)
5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2)
(equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account
27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA
15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2
19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on House
22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and £10,000 stg (£IR 9742.74)
24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern's deposit account (equates to £20,000 stg)

New A/Cs Feb '08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000


In total the whole lot equates to 500,000 Euros in todays money, and hardly any of it has a credible explanations.

Facts as established
Total monies given to Ahern for his personal use, IR£42388.00 = €53832.00

Pathetic, tonys...

But if we accept a figure of just £42388, while the average industrial wage at the time was about £14000, that puts a euro value of about 120,000 euro on the figure. Why do you find that acceptable?

[corkman2007]

How much of that money has he declared for Gift Tax purposes? How much Gift Tax has he paid on that money?

[pfkf1]

here is the full list: dates and all

30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O'Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson
25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account
8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters
11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)
5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts-28,000 and 22,000) transferred from B. Ahern's account to C Larkin account (CL1)
5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2)
(equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account
27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA
15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2
19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on House
22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and £10,000 stg (£IR 9742.74)
24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern's deposit account (equates to £20,000 stg)

New A/Cs Feb '08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000


In total the whole lot equates to 500,000 Euros in todays money, and hardly any of it has a credible explanations.

Facts as established
Total monies given to Ahern for his personal use, IR£42388.00 = €53832.00

Ok then tonys if the money was given to him for his personal use, did he declare it to the revenue and did he pay tax on it.

[tonys]

here is the full list: dates and all

30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O'Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson
25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account
8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters
11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)
5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts-28,000 and 22,000) transferred from B. Ahern's account to C Larkin account (CL1)
5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2)
(equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account
27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA
15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2
19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on House
22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and £10,000 stg (£IR 9742.74)
24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern's deposit account (equates to £20,000 stg)

New A/Cs Feb '08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000


In total the whole lot equates to 500,000 Euros in todays money, and hardly any of it has a credible explanations.

Facts as established
Total monies given to Ahern for his personal use, IR£42388.00 = €53832.00

Pathetic, tonys...

But if we accept a figure of just £42388, while the average industrial wage at the time was about £14000, that puts a euro value of about 120,000 euro on the figure. Why do you find that acceptable?

Pathetic? As in you don’t like it or as in you can’t argue against it or as in it might be true, but it’s not the way you like to think of it?

Assuming that the money was given as stated, as digouts with no corruption involved and as it wasn’t against any rules at the time, I don’t think we have any choice but to accept it and move on.

I don’t judge corruption by the average wage or by inflation (which would value the sum at about €85,000 today), something is either corrupt or it isn’t.

In this FG don’t even know how to argue their case, it is not only unnecessary to inflate the figures by a factor of 10, but it is a distraction to try to do so. If the payments were connected to corruption, it really doesn’t matter how much it was, they were corrupt payments, just go for that.
Of course the problem FG have is that there is no evidence of corruption and in order to try and get over this inconvenient fact, they resort to inflating the figures and expect people to just accept what they’re saying. It’s transparent nonsense and an insult to the intelligence of the Irish people.