Young Drivers - Determining an appropriate policy to maximise road safety.

[Duth Ealla]

As I noted on the thread about the tragic occurences in Donegal its not the greatest to have a thread serving as a condolence book and simultaneously as a debate on future policy etc in a way that might pre-judge the guilt of one of those who died.

So here is my opener on debate that we should be having but in an appropriate forum and thread.


To start the discussion is it time for engine size to be restricted for young car owners just as it is for [COLOR=#800080]motorbikes[/COLOR]. Engine size restricted for a period of five years after receiving your license maybe?

However whether this would be effective is uncertain as the following points out (albeit for bikes):

Driver age and vehicle engine size effects on fault and severity in young motorcyclists accidents
George Yannis, , John Golias and Eleonora Papadimitriou

Department of Transportation Planning and Engineering, National Technical University of Athens, 5 Iroon Polytechniou Street, GR-157 73 Zografou, Athens, Greece


Received 1 July 2003;
revised 24 September 2004;
accepted 1 October 2004.
Available online 26 November 2004.



Abstract
This paper reports a study of the combined effect of driver age and engine size on accident severity and at-fault risk of young riders of two-wheelers. Data from the national accident database of Greece are used to calculate accident severity and relative fault risk rates. The induced exposure technique is applied due to the lack of exposure data. A log-linear analysis is then used to examine first- and second-order effects within three-variable groups. Accident severity modelling revealed a significant second-order interaction between severity, driver age and two-wheeler engine size. On the contrary, no second-order effects were identified in fault risk modelling. Moreover, a significant effect of driver age on accident fault risk was identified. The effect of engine size was not significant

[Aindriu]

I don't really think that a study of Greek driving habits can be used with regard to our young drivers.

Personally, I believe that newly qualified drivers should have to take further mandatory, defensive driving courses to teach them beyond what they learned to pass the test (which is an extremely basic test anyway). I further believe that they should be restricted in engine BHP for 2 years and should also have to display and 'R' plate as they do in the north. At the moment a 17 year old can pass the test in a Micra and then go and jump in a Ferrari if they want to which is madness. I also firmly believe that ONLY qualified driving instructors should be able to give lessons (as in Germany for example) - no more lessons from Uncles, cousins, brothers etc.

[Rebel CNC]

Whatever about the stats and abstracts mentioned above - can anyone point out to me a study showing what % of fatal car accidents in this country in the past twelve months did NOT invlove a young male driver less than 30 years old?

[Duth Ealla]

Aindriu,
Indeed its applicability might be limited but when I came across it it seemed to show that the immediate assumption of bigger engines being the problem might not be the problem. Just trying to start a debate.

I think your point on a young driver being able to test in a micra and then move up to a sports car a day later is a good one.

Rebel CNC,

The NRA has a report from 2000 where they define young drivers as those between 18-24. They found that:
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In 2000, young car drivers accounted for 37% of all car drivers killed and 18%
of all car drivers injured.

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Young motorcycle drivers (18-24) accounted for 51% of all motorcycle drivers
killed and 41% of all injured in 2000.

and ..

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In 2000 the young male driver responsibility rate – the proportion of accidents
in which they were involved and deemed to be “to a large extent responsible”
– was higher for fatal (83%) than for serious (70%) or minor (55%) accidents.
That is, the greater the injury severity of accidents involving young male
drivers the greater the likelihood that they would be deemed to be responsible
to a large degree for the accident. Source

The cohort they used is less than the one you asked for but it makes the point you are suggesting. Fatality and age are incontrevertibly linked and the only question is how is this going to be tackled.

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[FrankSpeaks]

Many young drivers (mostly males) will always be idiots and no amount of extra testing or restrictions is going to change that fact. They will always drive too fast, putting limiters on them will not stop them breaking limits for example going more than 50kph in that zone.

Personally I think education is the key, I favour it happening in secondary education. New drivers should be forced to attend and pass an educational course of at least 40 hours duration before being allowed into a car.

[Duth Ealla]

Many countries have required that drivers go through a more intensive learning course than we used to have. Now that we have an improved theory course it may be that this will take a few years to take effect.

That theoretical course should of course be part of the solution. I wonder though are restrictions on the boy racer culture also warranted.
Should there be a restriction on young drivers modifying exhausts under noise pollution legislation.
Are there restrictions that could be usefully introduced, and assessible at the NCT, where "souping" up a car would be discouraged?

[SPN]

Lets keep some perspective here.

This year so far there have been four months with only 19 fatalities, and the highest month was 33 fatalities (Feb).

Compare and contrast with 2007 (lowest month with 22, and three months with over 30 - December being 39), 2006 (lowest month 17 - the month random breath testing was introduced - seven months in the 30s, and a high of 40 in January), and 2005 (Lowest month 22, three months in the 30s and four months in the 40s - highest being 44 in October).

We are making massive improvements, even if there is still too much focus on "speeding", and not enough focus on drink driving, drugged driving, and incompetent driving.

If the Gardai put more attention on careless behaviour - people who drive with only parking lights illuminated, people who drive with foglights on, people who park contrary to the direction of the traffic, and - especially - people who don't indicate their intentions on roundabouts, then they would achieve a much better result in terms of making people buck up their behaviour than the current policy of putting speed traps on roads where the speed limit is inappropriately low.

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[GJG]

Many young drivers (mostly males) will always be idiots and no amount of extra testing or restrictions is going to change that fact. They will always drive too fast, putting limiters on them will not stop them breaking limits for example going more than 50kph in that zone.

Personally I think education is the key, I favour it happening in secondary education. New drivers should be forced to attend and pass an educational course of at least 40 hours duration before being allowed into a car.

Fortunately, you are wrong.

Anyone familiar with GPS systems will know that they include in their database the speed limit for each stretch of road. It would be a pretty simple technological fix to connect this type of data to a speed-limiter that would simply make it impossible to drive in excess of the posted speed limit anywhere.

I think it was Hibernian who a few years back offered cut-price insurance to young drivers who accepted this type of device (which only reported, didn't prevent) speeding. Haven't heard of that lately.

I can't see why a limiter along these lines isn't required in all vehicles, but at the very least it should be mandatory for anyone who has just passed their test, or had their licence returned after a ban.

[GJG]

(Cue SPN to come along with a very logical-sounding reason why there would mass slaughter of little old ladies and fluffy bunnies if he isn't allowed to drive at 150k)

[SPN]

(Cue SPN to come along with a very logical-sounding reason why there would mass slaughter of little old ladies and fluffy bunnies if he isn't allowed to drive at 150k)

Yawn!

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