Metro-North decision tomorrow?

[John_C]

It's their job to make timely plans for sustainable and cost effective development and to provide a high quality environment in which people can live and work.

Doesn't building fast and reliable public transport fall into this category?

[alonso]

yes and more importantly so is developing the land along high capacity transit corridors such as the Metro North Economic Corridor, Metropark and even O'Connell Street itself./ As for "timely", Metro North has been on the drawing board since 2001 and not a track has been laid.

I'm not 100% sure if the plans for Swords are worthy. It seems like way too many people and may compromise MN's performance, depending on the final design. Also they are planning an awful lot of roads in the area which would cripple the place.

But to be honest - we have the strategy for Dublin TRansport (currently under review as you probably know) and it's time to start implementing it in a serious manner. 7 years since a Platform for Change and all we have is 2 Luas lines and more and more unsustainable sprawl. We desperately need mass transit based development to suck the city back in and to do that weneed the mass transit.

[michael1965]

Planning for 100,000 additional people in Swords is only being done as a post hoc justification for Metro North. Drumcondra and the rest of the North East suburbs have very low population densities within walking distance of the stations. That is why the absurd plans for Swords have been put in place.

Some would call that "forward planning", or even "joined-up thinking".

[michael1965]

Before their retirement, the push-pull-converted AEC DMUs (former GNR) that preceded the DART operations featured centre-facing seats as well; I remember them on the restored Maynooth commuter service in the early 80s (some of these trains used Newcomen Junction from Platform 7 in Connolly when the service was new).

I remember them well - the original cattle trains, with the hideous fixed plastic seats. They could certainly squeeze the passengers in though. Not sure if they would meet modern health and safety requirements.

There is no potential with the Interconnector like its proponents in the government are claiming. It's a tremendous waste of money, and that $1.2 billion could be instead spent on building new lines radiating out of the city, and rebuilding closed commuter lines (e.g. the MGWR between Clonsilla and Navan, GNR between Drogheda and Navan, and so forth) plus restoring lost terminal capacity in Dublin so that these trains will have a place to terminate and lay over.

Not sure I'd agree with you there. The value of this is probably more to do with the way it links all the existing lines, than where it actually directly serves itself. A proper transport network has to make all of its nodes easily accessible, not just the one or two main locations in the centre of the city.

I still don't get the problem with the PPT though. Some commuter trains coming from the West could go through the PPT and serve Cabra, Glasnevin and Drumcondra (linking with Metro North), then terminating at Connolly (which if the Interconnector goes ahead, will have far less commuter traffic). Or as you said, they could build a track direct from Heuston to the PPT either, and run the trains simply from Heuston to Connolly, rather than coming in from the West.

[Al.]

I remember them well - the original cattle trains, with the hideous fixed plastic seats. They could certainly squeeze the passengers in though. Not sure if they would meet modern health and safety requirements

AFAICR, they were contaminated with asbestos, and it was a bit tricky to dispose of them when they were cut up. They started life as DMUs themselves, with (IINM) AEC diesel engines under-floor.

Not sure I'd agree with you there (about the Interconnector). The value of this is probably more to do with the way it links all the existing lines, than where it actually directly serves itself. A proper transport network has to make all of its nodes easily accessible, not just the one or two main locations in the centre of the city

That's not the pressing need for Dublin right now; what the city needs is more radial railway lines so they can bypass the crowded motorways and two-lane national roads systems. People aren't commuting cross-city for the most part. The government can go mad planning and building under-sized metros and Interconnectors (the latter being duplicative) but completely ignore the outlying commuter markets, some of which have railway lines with no tracks leading to them that could be rebuilt. The Interconnector is not going to help rail traffic merely by re-shuffling the corridors, nor are they going to attract new passengers if they aren't building railway lines to where these passengers are coming from.

(Consider your "ideal" commuter trip on the Kildare Line to the actual city centre via the Interconnector—getting off at St. Stephen's Green to board the Metro? The Metro train's already full, sorry, and it doesn't help being half the length of the train you just got off. Pearse Street to Tara Street? Same dilemma, since all the passengers from Bray and such are still on board. Gotta go out to the street and walk or ride a bus, which is the same spot you were in when you were getting off at Heuston, apart from having the Luas there.)

I still don't get the problem with the PPT though. Some commuter trains coming from the West could go through the PPT and serve Cabra, Glasnevin and Drumcondra (linking with Metro North), then terminating at Connolly (which if the Interconnector goes ahead, will have far less commuter traffic). Or as you said, they could build a track direct from Heuston to the PPT either, and run the trains simply from Heuston to Connolly, rather than coming in from the West

That's what I don't like about this. The network is already interconnected, and it isn't being used to its full potential by a long shot. If the PPT was already in use, and busy with at least 15 TPH in each direction (I'll settle for less, just for a margin of safety), then I'd say go ahead and build something like the Interconnector.

Right now, the majority of commuter trains in Dublin are DMUs, and the PPT is sitting idle, as a freight rail corridor (underutilised, to boot, since IE have been cutting freight operations over the past couple of years); and on the passenger side, IE is making the existing train stations smaller (I recall the days when Connolly had the "inset" Platform 4, and Platform 7 had a run-around track from the steam days, that I always thought they should have built a "Platform 8" adjacent to; instead, CIE removed the track immediately adjacent to Platform 7 and made Platform 7 itself wider...and what else, they built a commuter entrance under the bridge by Buckingham Street, and then closed it two decades later inexplicably...I could go on and on, with the "mini-CTC" debacle, their decision to junk the Mark IIIs even though they're in their prime, Broadstone again...so much other stuff).

Doesn't help that in Dublin, the main rival rail agency is building to a standard utterly incompatible to the generail railway network. Fine if you like light rail; but if you're going to put it onto former railway lines, then build to the same gauge as the general railway network, and adhere to the UIC standard for "tram-trains" so that run-through potential could be realised. And try and avoid building street-running in the city centre, because having all the cars hit the trams can be a real safety issue...

Now for our friend writing from the primate display in the Gairdin Ainmhithe...

laughable gibberish from start to finish.

no need for comment.
you clearly don't commute on dublin trains.

personally I think horses and carts are ample for our country friends until dublin gets a proper public transport system.

You think? That would be a first for you. Don't feel bad that you can't understand a word of what I wrote. Most of the rest of the people here do. You're the odd monkey out.

[alonso]

AI stephen;s green is the city centre closest to the real business district, and is multiples of metres closer to O C St than Heuston. And I don't agree re radial lines -the interconnector is in effect the extension of 4 radial lines from N, S, NW and SW all into the heart of the city - we will have 4 radial heavy rail lines all linked together at Pearse, while also linking to Luas and Metro at multiple locations