Should EU phase out manual transmission cars?

[patslatt]

Americans think the rest of the world is crazy to be using manual transmissions. Manuals are difficult to learn and probably cause many accidents among learner drivers.

The reason for keeping manuals is fuel economy. According to Toyota,on one of its models the saving on the manual is about 7% compared to the automatic,quite considerable. This 7% is probably based on a driver using the manual with optimal efficiency. I suspect the average driver's efficiency is far from optimal,so the saving may be far less. A research programme should be commissioned by the EU Commission on this important issue.

If the entire EU population went on automatics,their fuel efficiency could be improved with scale economies,possibly closing the gap to,say,3% instead of 7%. Then the fuel saving wouldn't matter much,especially if automatics cut car crashes. This suggests the EU should consider the phase-out of manual transmissions for safety reasons.

[mairteenpak]

In ten years we will be driving a lot more electric cars which will be run on DC Motors, powered by hydrogen and methane fuel cells, which would be automatic in any event. The future of the Automatic Car is in matching the power to speed ratio to the most optimal gear ratio for maximum engine efficiency. This can best be done by computer control.

There may also be a case for doing so from a safety point of view.

Since the air resistance of cars varies with the square of their speed there would seem to be a basis also in looking at enforcing a maximum cruising speed, and banning some rear spoilers ( ironing boards) which increase drag on cars.

Ensuring that roads have a near zero gradient would do a lot to improve efficiency, by eliminating energy lost working against gravity.

[droghedasouth]

Americans think the rest of the world is crazy to be using manual transmissions. Manuals are difficult to learn and probably cause many accidents among learner drivers.

The reason for keeping manuals is fuel economy. According to Toyota,on one of its models the saving on the manual is about 7% compared to the automatic,quite considerable. This 7% is probably based on a driver using the manual with optimal efficiency. I suspect the average driver's efficiency is far from optimal,so the saving may be far less. A research programme should be commissioned by the EU Commission on this important issue.

If the entire EU population went on automatics,their fuel efficiency could be improved with scale economies,possibly closing the gap to,say,3% instead of 7%. Then the fuel saving wouldn't matter much,especially if automatics cut car crashes. This suggests the EU should consider the phase-out of manual transmissions for safety reasons.

Economies of scale apply to production efficiencies/costs not fuel efficiency.

The CVT system as opposed to the usual torque converter is very efficient and is used on some Ford models in North America.

[essexboy]

Americans think the rest of the world is crazy to be using manual transmissions. Manuals are difficult to learn and probably cause many accidents among learner drivers.

The reason for keeping manuals is fuel economy. According to Toyota,on one of its models the saving on the manual is about 7% compared to the automatic,quite considerable. This 7% is probably based on a driver using the manual with optimal efficiency. I suspect the average driver's efficiency is far from optimal,so the saving may be far less. A research programme should be commissioned by the EU Commission on this important issue.

If the entire EU population went on automatics,their fuel efficiency could be improved with scale economies,possibly closing the gap to,say,3% instead of 7%. Then the fuel saving wouldn't matter much,especially if automatics cut car crashes. This suggests the EU should consider the phase-out of manual transmissions for safety reasons.

The boy racers and their supporters eg Senator Marc McSharry won't be happy. :P

[Bray Head]

In ten years we will be driving a lot more electric cars which will be run on DC Motors, powered by hydrogen and methane fuel cells, which would be automatic in any event. The future of the Automatic Car is in matching the power to speed ratio to the most optimal gear ratio for maximum engine efficiency. This can best be done by computer control.

Oooo I remember back as far as 1986 they said we'd be driving electric cars, in, well the 21st century. And here we are. And where are they?

Since the air resistance of cars varies with the square of their sped (sic) there would seem to be a basis also in looking at enforcing a maximum cruising speed

Cars hit maximum efficiency at about 80km/h I believe. So would you increase the speed limits on slower roads too in the interests of fuel efficiency?

Ensuring that roads have a near zero gradient would do a lot to improve efficiency, by eliminating energy lost working against gravity.

This would be a great idea in the Netherlands maybe. Just try building 'zero gradient' roads in Wicklow and see how far you get.

And as for the question in the thread title I'd like to know if there's any evidence that manual transmission increases accidents. I never find I have to take my eyes off the road and look at the gearstick to change gears now myself.

[Pidge]

This would be a great idea in the Netherlands maybe. Just try building 'zero gradient' roads in Wicklow and see how far you get.

Probably about as far as the M11 and bits of the M50. Motorways are generally close to zero gradient, with some exceptions.

Anyway, on the general thread, is there any reasoning or evidence that would indicate that manual transmissions cause or increase the chances of accidents?

[R Paul]

In ten years we will be driving a lot more electric cars which will be run on DC Motors, powered by hydrogen and methane fuel cells, which would be automatic in any event. The future of the Automatic Car is in matching the power to speed ratio to the most optimal gear ratio for maximum engine efficiency. This can best be done by computer control.

Oooo I remember back as far as 1986 they said we'd be driving electric cars, in, well the 21st century. And here we are. And where are they?

They are just hitting production (or getting close to it), altough mainly high end just yet.




Relevant link for the company is here

[Victor Meldrew]

If you want to cut CO2 make cars lighter and reduce drag. Manuals hold the road better than autos, so are safer. They are 'harder' to learn, but you learn it and are ok. Stopping learners who cant drive driving unaccompanied would help more.

[michael1965]

Americans think the rest of the world is crazy to be using manual transmissions. Manuals are difficult to learn and probably cause many accidents among learner drivers.

The reason for keeping manuals is fuel economy. According to Toyota,on one of its models the saving on the manual is about 7% compared to the automatic,quite considerable. This 7% is probably based on a driver using the manual with optimal efficiency. I suspect the average driver's efficiency is far from optimal,so the saving may be far less. A research programme should be commissioned by the EU Commission on this important issue.

If the entire EU population went on automatics,their fuel efficiency could be improved with scale economies,possibly closing the gap to,say,3% instead of 7%. Then the fuel saving wouldn't matter much,especially if automatics cut car crashes. This suggests the EU should consider the phase-out of manual transmissions for safety reasons.

Strange thread. I think your thesis is so unlikely that it's not even worth investigating. Maybe, the Americans should switch to what the rest of the world does (for a change )

[bm42]

Americans think the rest of the world is crazy to be using manual transmissions.

Much of the rest of the world think americans are crazy on many fronts but that's neither here nor there. Everybody is predisposed to thinking that the way they do things is best and that anybody who does things differently is quite clearly wrong, maybe even crazy.

Manuals are difficult to learn and probably cause many accidents among learner drivers.

Really? Care to back that up with some stats?

The reason for keeping manuals is fuel economy. According to Toyota,on one of its models the saving on the manual is about 7% compared to the automatic,quite considerable. This 7% is probably based on a driver using the manual with optimal efficiency. I suspect the average driver's efficiency is far from optimal,so the saving may be far less. A research programme should be commissioned by the EU Commission on this important issue.

In general, manuals and automatics are suited to different driving conditions. Automatics are ideal for city driving and long distance cruising. They are less suited to the tight and twisty roads and hilly roads. There are some exceptions to this.

If the entire EU population went on automatics,their fuel efficiency could be improved with scale economies,possibly closing the gap to,say,3% instead of 7%. Then the fuel saving wouldn't matter much,especially if automatics cut car crashes. This suggests the EU should consider the phase-out of manual transmissions for safety reasons.

Again, where is the evidence that crashes that are being caused manual gearboxes, clutches and the need to change gears?