IALPA settlement with Aer Lingus

[bm42]

The gist of the settlement is that Aer Lingus are now free to set up future foreign bases with local pay and conditions. In return IALPA gets recognised as the pilots union in Belfast.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmhcwcwkfey/

This whole thing looks to have been little more than a turf war with IALPA trying to increase its membership and no doubt its union dues.
The big question is how this will affect pilots who take jobs in belfast who are already in another union representing pilots in NI, who want to join a different union representing pilots in NI or who simply have no interest in union membership. Has IALPA negotiated a closed shop (or an effective closed shop, since an actual closed shop agreement would be illegal)? If so, it's claims to be acting in the interest of employees and about this whole farce being about pay and conditions were total bull************************.

What do the rest of you think?

P.S. Lots of people would credibly argue that belfast is not a foreign base but please don't go off topic on that point.

[locke]

The major issue seems to have been the pensions in The North. The result on that one is that transferees will keep their definied benefit, while new hires will be in a defined contribution scheme.

Making IALPA the union for Belfast seems to have been a sweetener to get them to accept the defined contribution for new members.

[clareman51]

I believe that the long-term plan for AL is to leave Ireland to get rid of the overstaffing. The Shannon-Heathrow is not really about a viable route, but about breaking the terms of employment for the staff.
Aer Lingus will probably be an airline that flies into Ireland, but not majorly based here other than a token office.

[Rebel CNC]

Bit of a face saving exercise by IALPA but Aer Lingus management have got more or less exactly what they wanted.

[Dr Jimbo]

What I could not get over was that IALPA was dead set against merit-based promotion, and insistent on seniority-based promotion. Talk about a license for time-servers!
Piloting is highly regulated, so there may be less scope to stand out on a performance basis, but htis sort on nonsense gives unions a bad name.

[locke]

Historically, the reason for seniority based promotion is to stop pilots being put under pressure to fly unsafely. Things like risking an approach that should be delayed. In the early days of aviation this was a serious problem. Whether it still applies in the modern world, where an airline that encourages such practises should lose its AOC is questionable.

[Rebel CNC]

You could fly modern aircraft from the ground using current technology (albeit with very nervous passangers).

[odie1kanobe]

I believe that the long-term plan for AL is to leave Ireland to get rid of the overstaffing. The Shannon-Heathrow is not really about a viable route, but about breaking the terms of employment for the staff.
Aer Lingus will probably be an airline that flies into Ireland, but not majorly based here other than a token office.

Right as if Europe hadn't enough airlines like this already.

AL will still be based in ireland with the majority of passengers flying from there.

[Colada]

The gist of the settlement is that Aer Lingus are now free to set up future foreign bases with local pay and conditions. In return IALPA gets recognised as the pilots union in Belfast.

In fairness, there's a bit more to it than that.
The agreement, which was finalised yesterday morning after 20 hours of negotiations at the Labour Relations Commission, also covers pension arrangements for staff transferring between Dublin and Belfast.
Quoted from your own link!

This whole thing looks to have been little more than a turf war with IALPA trying to increase its membership and no doubt its union dues.

Utter nonsense. The stakes are way beyond a few quid in dues.

The big question is how this will affect pilots who take jobs in belfast who are already in another union representing pilots in NI

Those in 'another union' would be in BALPA, and that union has ceded its interests in NI to IALPA.....

who want to join a different union representing pilots in NI

There isn't one....

or who simply have no interest in union membership. Has IALPA negotiated a closed shop (or an effective closed shop, since an actual closed shop agreement would be illegal)?

As you said, closed shop is illegal. How could they 'negotiate' outside the Law?

If so, it's claims to be acting in the interest of employees and about this whole farce being about pay and conditions were total bull************************.

And as you can now see, you were wrong.

I believe that the long-term plan for AL is to leave Ireland to get rid of the overstaffing. The Shannon-Heathrow is not really about a viable route, but about breaking the terms of employment for the staff.
Aer Lingus will probably be an airline that flies into Ireland, but not majorly based here other than a token office.

Very perceptive.
There will be little or no future expansion of Aer Lingus from Dublin. It will all happen in future from foreign bases. This was the whole point of the exercise from ALT management perspective.
Its the same system used so succesfully by Ryanair to castrate their workforce. ALT simply want to follow the lead.

Bit of a face saving exercise by IALPA but Aer Lingus management have got more or less exactly what they wanted.

Yes, indeed they have. For now.
More demands will soon follow.

What I could not get over was that IALPA was dead set against merit-based promotion, and insistent on seniority-based promotion. Talk about a license for time-servers!

Are you really a Doctor? If so, what would you know about merit based selection? Doctors (like most professionals in this country) have zero accountability. Only on the rarest of occasions do we see one of them hauled up for gross incompetence - and it is usually followed by a litany of evidence of cover-ups and 'rank closing' by his fellow 'professionals' - a la 'Neary' case.

Most members of the public would like to see merit based selection among doctors being judged by your patient death rate! What better measure of efficiency could there be?
But I would expect major resistance from the medical fraternity, on the grounds that such a measure would be 'unfair'.
It just goes to show how 'merit based selection' is more difficult to define than you'd like to suggest in your silly comment.

Besides which, given the higher standards of regulation in aviation than medicine, any pilot with a clean record working in a decent company has a far superior demonstrated track record than any doctor in Ireland. Or indeed most countries. Pilots kill their customers far less frequently than doctors do. This is highly meritorious, n'est ce pas?

Historically, the reason for seniority based promotion is to stop pilots being put under pressure to fly unsafely. Things like risking an approach that should be delayed. In the early days of aviation this was a serious problem. Whether it still applies in the modern world, where an airline that encourages such practises should lose its AOC is questionable.

Certainly it still applies! 90 people died in Phuket just last month because of such pressure being exerted by an airline on its pilots. No doubt the crew in question were hoping to gain 'Merit' in the eyes of the bean-counters of Air Phuket, by pushing the safety of the operation aside in pursuit of 'optimum economic performance' etc.
Failure to land in Phuket was clearly not 'Meritable performance' at this airline.
Has the airline lost its AOC?

The ALT pilots have yet to be ballotted on this 'proposal'. It is not an agreement - it is a proposal made by the LRC.

Don't assume its going to pass. There is major disquiet about it among the pilots, and its going to be a very close thing.

[patslatt]

I believe that the long-term plan for AL is to leave Ireland to get rid of the overstaffing. The Shannon-Heathrow is not really about a viable route, but about breaking the terms of employment for the staff.
Aer Lingus will probably be an airline that flies into Ireland, but not majorly based here other than a token office.

After Bertie departs,maybe,but not while he needs the votes.

The AL workers and pilots seem to think they are civil servants in cushy jobs ,instead of employees in an international,ruthlessly competitive industry that has seen some of the best managed American airlines go under. This attitude could sink AL in the next economic downturn.