An Bord Pleanala throws up road block to Luas BXD city centre link up line

[Grumpy Jack]

An Bord Pleanala looks like it is about to throw a very big spanner in the government's plans to build the €300million Luas BXD line to extend the Green Line from Stephen's Green to Broombridge, interchanging with the Red line at O'Connell St-Abbey St-Marlbourough St.

RTE last night reported this:

Concern over Luas link-up in Dublin city - RT News

An Bord Pleanála has expressed concern that the proposed Luas link-up in Dublin city centre would interfere with future development of the DART Underground and Metro North projects.

Construction of the LUAS link line BXD was originally scheduled to take place after completion of the two underground lines.

The board points out that the LUAS line will be above three planned Metro stations and one for the DART Underground.

The areas affected are the Metro station under the Liffey with access from O'Connell St Lower and Westmoreland Street and the Luas-Metro-Dart interchange on Stephen's Green.

According to RTE:

In a letter to the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA), the board states it is not clear how future works can be carried out while keeping the BXD line open.

It would also have reservations about any proposal to suspend or replace this Luas service.

The Metro North and Underground DART projects have been given the go-ahead by An Bord Pleanála.

But these plans were shelved in the Government's spending review last November because of the combined cost estimated at €5bn.

While this morning the Indo has this:

Luas network at risk from underground work - National News - Independent.ie

PLANNERS have raised concerns that large parts of Dublin's Luas network will have to be taken out of service if an underground railway system goes ahead, writes Paul Melia.

Plans to link the capital's two Luas lines could be further delayed after An Bord Pleanala yesterday sought details of how three underground stations could be built without impacting massively on the tram service.

Here's the letter ABP sent to the RPA seeking clarification on not just the Metro/Dart station boxes but also asking for further information on Bordeaux-style 'wireless' tram operation on College Green and expressing concerns about the stop design on Dawson St.

http://www.pleanala.ie/news/NA0004_F_I_Request.pdf

As has been pointed out by RTE, Luas BXD was due to be built AFTER Metro and DartU, not BEFORE. If ABP insists on construction of the Metro/Dart station boxes as part of the Luas BXD works it could more than double the €300m cost of the Luas BXD and push it close to the €700m which was the govt contribution to the Metro North PPP, which was cited as too expensive at this time and cut from the 2012-2015 capital development plan.

So if ABP do insist on this work as part of Luas BXD, it will throw up an interesting dilemma for the govt which has hung it public transport plans on Luas BXD - especially if Irish bond rates continue to fall, a deal is done on the Anglo notes which kicks repayment of 10 or more years down the line, and the continued availability of European Investment Bank funding for major infrastructure projects.

Of course, no mention is made by either RTE or the Indo that building Luas BXD in the absence of Metro and DartU will be waste of €300m or more on a PR exercise to make it look like the government is doing 'something' for public transport in Dublin.

[Aindriu]

Do they not realise that Metro North has been shelved? We are broke!

[Grumpy Jack]

Do they not realise that Metro North has been shelved? We are broke!

ABP are charged with planning matters alone - they have given 10-year planning permission to both Metro and Dart. From a planning perspective it makes no sense to then grant permission for a project that would then have to be torn up within a couple of years to facilitate construction of the other two projects should a future government decide to proceed when the economy, state finances and the international funding environment improve. It is common sense on the part of ABP.

If ABP follow through with these concerns in any railway order they issue, it poses a big dilemma for Leo.

Politicians may think in short-term five-year electoral cycles - planners and civil servants take a longer view in terms of decades.

[sauntersplash]

ABP are charged with planning matters alone - they have given 10-year planning permission to both Metro and Dart. From a planning perspective it makes no sense to then grant permission for a project that would then have to be torn up within a couple of years to facilitate construction of the other two projects should a future government decide to proceed when the economy, state finances and the international funding environment improve. It is common sense on the part of ABP.

If ABP follow through with these concerns in any railway order they issue, it poses a big dilemma for Leo.

Politicians may think in short-term in five-year electoral cycles - planners and civil servants take a longer view in terms of decades.

I often wonder how much expertise there is in Ireland when it comes to transport planning. Is there even a university course in the subject in this country?

[Grumpy Jack]

I often wonder how much expertise there is in Ireland when it comes to transport planning. Is there even a university course in the subject in this country?

Much of the expertise is imported either through outside consultants or Irish engineers/planners who have worked on similar schemes in other countries where considerable expertise has been developed over decades.

For example, one engineer I know who worked on Dart Underground has worked on similar rail projects in the UK and in Hong Kong. He is Irish but was educated and qualified in the UK.

There are quite a few like him working in IE, the RPA and NRA.

As for courses, DIT runs courses in Transport Managmenent and Planning.

[Sierra]

Do they not realise that Metro North has been shelved? We are broke!

You do realize that shelving generally means that the project will be taken up in the future? That is what Leo Varadkar stated in anycase. Accordingly An Bord Pleanála are correct to raise this point, as the development of the DART Interconnector & Metro North will be thrown off course completely if the necessary preparation work is not done when the BXD line is constructed. Planning permission for the projects had envisaged the DART/Metro work being undertaken first followed by the construction of the BXD line.

Let Leo come out and say that the DART Interconnector and Metro North project is dead for good if he wants to speed ahead with the BXD line construction. Otherwise An Bord Pleanála are doing their job correctly.

[Roll_On]

Well done to ABP for highlighting the issue. It is clear, from the RPA's "route selection" process that they have absolutely no regard for the public purse, this is clearly indicated by their ludicrusly expensive preffered route for Metro North when there is a far cheaper alternative route that wasn't even considered by the RPA.

RPA could seek to mitigate ABP's concerns and save tens of millions(not that they care) by a simple re-route of the north bound BXD track via Marlborough street. By relocating the northbound track to Marborough st, you save on utilities diversion, you get far less diruption, you get a better connection with the red line. This would mean luas avoids the massive O'Connell Bridge Metro station.

ABPs concerns over the Stephen's Green stop can be solved by a re-ortgainsation of proposed DARTu and MetroN works or by construction of a luas turn around facility on Dawson st.

[Panopticon]

Frank McDonald has been roused:

Decision on city Luas link stalled as more facts sought - The Irish Times - Mon, Feb 13, 2012

[Grumpy Jack]

Frank McDonald has been roused:

Decision on city Luas link stalled as more facts sought - The Irish Times - Mon, Feb 13, 2012

The Irish Times - last week's news next week.

Notice how McDonald focuses on the relatively trivial ABP concern - overheard wires or wireless traction on College Green - and misses the much more serious and potentially expensive problem ABP have with the project.

If ABP insists in Luas BXD railway order that Metro/Dart station boxes on OCS/WS and SSG are excavated as part of BXD works contract to prevent future disruption when MN/DU eventually proceed, it could more than double the cost of BXD - leaving govt with a very big dilemma.

One has to wonder why the media is ignoring that issue - or do editors/reporters in nationals and RTE/TV3 even understand.

Or why have they not examined the govt decision to proceed with Luas BXD - it is nothing more than a €300m PR exercise to show Leo/FG-Lab are doing 'something'.

We know there is no money to proceed with Metro North or Dart U for at least the next four years, but why proceed with a project that was not meant to be completed until AFTER Metro and Dart and in their absence add passenger numbers to a Luas line (Green) which is already at capacity in a recession four years before BXD will be operational?

It makes no sense from a long-term transportation or planning perspective - but only from a short-term political point of view. And it certainly makes no sense from a financial perspective to spend €300m-plus on a project that will be at or beyond capacity from the minute it begins operations four to five years from now - if ABP approve it as it is currently planned.

[Panopticon]

One has to wonder why the media is ignoring that issue - or do editors/reporters in nationals and RTE/TV3 even understand.

Extremely unlikely.

Or why have they not examined the govt decision to proceed with Luas BXD - it is nothing more than a €300m PR exercise to show Leo/FG-Lab are doing 'something'.

We know there is no money to proceed with Metro North or Dart U for at least the next four years, but why proceed with a project that was not meant to be completed until AFTER Metro and Dart and in their absence add passenger numbers to a Luas line (Green) which is already at capacity in a recession four years before BXD will be operational?

It makes no sense from a long-term transportation or planning perspective - but only from a short-term political point of view. And it certainly makes no sense from a financial perspective to spend €300m-plus on a project that will be at or beyond capacity from the minute it begins operations four to five years from now - if ABP approve it as it is currently planned.

Again, this is a long-term issue, beyond the ken of your average hack.