Should DAA takeover Cork and Shannon?

[Schuhart]

Just an update from today's papers.

The minister said that inevitably, over time, Cork Airport’s debt "will have to be paid off by passengers using Dublin Airport".

"Cork is working very well as an airport but the difficulty there is the enormous debt that has arisen from the new terminal which it will not be able to pay off on its own.

Mr Varadkar added: "Shannon Airport has a great future as a passenger airport but also as one which is concerned with avionics and aero-industry but the status quo there is not working and the airport is in decline, which is why we need to have a change of policy in that regard."

Read more: Airports

The position on Cork is probably just stating reality, albeit unpalatable to both airports.

However, I can't help thinking the statement about Shannon is more waffle. What does a great future as a passenger airport but also as one which is concerned with avionics and aero-industry actually mean? Its next door to Bertie's comment, in the context of a debate on rendition flights, that "Shannon Airport is, of course, one of the great places in Europe to land".

The Shannon cargo hub idea is getting some airplay. But the idea that Shannon would be a cargo hub was part of the original plan in the 1950s, as a response to the increased range of trans-Atlantic aircraft making the airport redundant. What's supposed to be the factor in play now that makes irrelevant the failure of Shannon Development to deliver on this plan over the past sixty years?

[Schuhart]

'Certainty' on Shannon's future by Easter - RT News

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar has said Shannon Airport will have certainty about its future direction by Easter.

..... Mr Varadkar also said some part of Shannon's debt would have to be written down or perhaps written off altogether if it is to be sustainable into the future.

Just following the issue as it goes. The inevitable question about debt write-offs is, as always, paid for by whom?

Now, clearly the debt exists even if Shannon was closed. The only question whether Shannon will, by continued operations, add to or reduce the debt.

It strikes me that the absolute need is to ensure that Shannon isn't adding to the debt - that may or may not be the situation at present. Beyond that, presumably the objective is some formula that isolates Shannon and detachs it from the fortunes of Dublin and Cork.

On the political front, is it fair to say that Enda is likely to see Shannon's difficulty as Knock's opportunity. I've no doubt that Shannon will do some damage as part of the divorce settlement. But its dead hand might finally be removed from our aviation policy. Once the obstacle is removed without excessive cost, we can just let the whole sorry business of the last sixty years finally drop into history.

[Clanrickard]

Shannon should be privitised. Most people in the mid west would use Shannon if there options available. It is the lack of routes that is killing the airport not lack of goodwill on behalf of the flying public. DAA have sucked the life out of it to benefit Dublin so now they have no reason to keep it. Shannon would be successful with a combination of passenger, cargo and military flights.

[Schuhart]

Shannon should be privitised. Most people in the mid west would use Shannon if there options available. It is the lack of routes that is killing the airport not lack of goodwill on behalf of the flying public. DAA have sucked the life out of it to benefit Dublin so now they have no reason to keep it.

The usual reversal of reality, as if the failure of Ryanair to find traffic can be laid at the door of someone else. The lack of a flying public is what took away the routes.

We even see the Shannon cult trying to get traction behind the idea that some vast conspiracy orchestrated by Aer Lingus is redirecting traffic to Dublin, as if this is there way of suppressing the memory of the Shannon stopover, and as if other airlines couldn’t exploit any gap left by Aer Lingus.

If we wait, we’ll probably see someone using the last refuge of the defender of failed policies – the claim of insufficient marketing, as if Shannon Development wasn’t specifically founded over fifty years ago specifically to promote Shannon Airport.

It will be an irony if a Mayo Taoiseach is the element that creates the opportunity to finally remove the Shannon obstruction.

Shannon would be successful with a combination of passenger, cargo and military flights.

Our common objective is to create a situation where that statement is removed from the political realm - where it simply becomes an objective for Shannon to either succeed in, or fail and close without doing further harm to anyone else.

The issue to be resolved is simply what pain Shannon can inflict before getting to that situation. I've no doubt Limerick Chamber will gas about how the economic benefits of Shannon will outweight any financial injection required to make it independent. I doubt they'd be willing to back up that gas by actually stumping up the cash themselves.

[Boy M5]

Schuart much as I recall you and I agreed on the Global Pharma Centre in Tralee. You seem to have a fixation about SNN and are using rather florrid language. It would be shameful if a major state asset was shut to benefit the much smaller Knock, which shouldn't have been built in the 1st place.

The issue is, is state infrastructure there to facilitate industry including tourism. Improve society in someway or is it there just to make a profit. Are Shannon's finances existential to the state? Its absence would impact the mid West, and further afield in terms of transatlantic connectivity. Included in the latter is Allergen in Westport which uses SNN to connect to the US HQ.

[Clanrickard]

The usual reversal of reality, as if the failure of Ryanair to find traffic can be laid at the door of someone else. The lack of a flying public is what took away the routes.

Wrong. Routes are not available. Ryanair wanted to fly people to mickey mouse airports in the middle of nowhere and get not charged a cent by Shannon. Shannon goofed. If they had looked after Aer Lingus or struck a deal with Cityjet or some such airline and kept O'Leary out they would not be in the pickle they are in. Shannon Airports own fault but a cock up that could be fixed.

We even see the Shannon cult trying to get traction behind the idea that some vast conspiracy orchestrated by Aer Lingus is redirecting traffic to Dublin, as if this is there way of suppressing the memory of the Shannon stopover, and as if other airlines couldn’t exploit any gap left by Aer Lingus.

My god you are obtuse!. I have posted a link where a Councillor in Limerick who worked with Aer Lingus was directed to take passengers booking in the US away from Shannon. I know pilots who deliberately told the tower that there was fog so they could land in Dublin and get home quicker. The customers had to be sent by bus to Shannon. But hey you keep ignoring facts to suit your own agenda.

It will be an irony if a Mayo Taoiseach is the element that creates the opportunity to finally remove the Shannon obstruction.

The word obstruction sums up your agenda. Were you fired from Shannon Airport by any chance?

[Schuhart]

You seem to have a fixation about SNN and are using rather florrid language.

I do return to this issue time and again, because I believe it so perfectly illustrates a set of issues in our society that don't get aired and confronted.

It would be shameful if a major state asset was shut to benefit the much smaller Knock, which shouldn't have been built in the 1st place.

I can go a distance here. I wouldn't necessarily say "shameful", as I'm not sure that the either the Knock agenda or the Shannon agenda are standing on some moral high ground. I might use some phrase like "the price of them".

The issue is, is state infrastructure there to facilitate industry including tourism. Improve society in someway or is it there just to make a profit. Are Shannon's finances existential to the state? Its absence would impact the mid West, and further afield in terms of transatlantic connectivity. Included in the latter is Allergen in Westport which uses SNN to connect to the US HQ.

Indeed, but the further issue is whether Shannon actually materially adds to that agenda. Shannon's business development manager recently admitted the airport has been more successful in serving Irish people holidaying abroad than it is at bringing tourists in. Its rare that kind of heresy is allowed to surface, and rarer for it to be digested.

Additionally, I know damn all about Allergen. But if their Irish operation has a critical need for air access to the States, Westport is the wrong location. More pragmatically, I doubt that Shannon Airport is massively more convenient to folk in Westport compared to Dublin Airport - particularly when you consider the wider array of destinations and freqency of service. Two-thirds of West of Ireland foreign tourists entered the country through an East coast gateway - Shannon simply isn't that necessary.

Wrong. Routes are not available. Ryanair wanted to fly people to mickey mouse airports in the middle of nowhere and get not charged a cent by Shannon. Shannon goofed. If they had looked after Aer Lingus or struck a deal with Cityjet or some such airline and kept O'Leary out they would not be in the pickle they are in. Shannon Airports own fault but a cock up that could be fixed.

Perhaps, but you do realise that you have a bit of an uphill struggle if you are trying to say that Ryanair don't know how to get passengers for airports in unpromising locations. Bear in mind, its not as if Shannon has lacked for promotion - given that its had an agency specifically dedicated to its development for decades.

My god you are obtuse!. I have posted a link where a Councillor in Limerick who worked with Aer Lingus was directed to take passengers booking in the US away from Shannon. I know pilots who deliberately told the tower that there was fog so they could land in Dublin and get home quicker. The customers had to be sent by bus to Shannon. But hey you keep ignoring facts to suit your own agenda.

But, sure, a Limerick councillor telling a local audience what they want to hear is not evidence. The rest of the stuff is similarly an attempt of forgetting the reality that it was Shannon that had a compulsory stopover. Seriously, Dr Freud would have a field day interpreting where in the Id spawned this latest invention of the Shannon cult. Other airlines exist. Are Continental Airlines pilots all Dubs, determined to get to the Hill in time for the match?

The word obstruction sums up your agenda. Were you fired from Shannon Airport by any chance?

No, I'm simply dedicated to not letting this one pass. The Shannon cult are re-inventing history. Although, hopefully, the conditions are there to mean all they are doing is re-inventing history.

Either way, dissection of this agenda tells us a lot about the set of questions that keep puzzling folk about the nature of politics here.

[Schuhart]

Mr O’Leary has written to Transport Minister Leo Varadkar, urging him to sell Shannon and Cork airports to the highest bidder.

<...>

Mr O’Leary said yesterday: "If the Government got €40m to €50m for Shannon, it should sell it. It is the only way forward for Shannon and Cork, and would give the airports vitality and energy."

Mr O’Leary ruled out cash-rich Ryanair purchasing either airport. He said: "But we can introduce Government to operators of successful private airports at Prestwick and Cardiff."

Read more: Shannon

I know its just O'Leary being O'Leary. At the same time, presumably there is some price at which it would make sense to just sell the airports.

However, what mostly made me post this was the references to Prestwick and Cardiff. According to Wikipedia:

Glasgow Prestwick Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia saw 1,662,744 passengers in 2010, a fall of 8.5% on the previous year.

Cardiff Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia saw 1,404,613 passengers in 2010, a fall of 13.9% on the previous year.

Shannon, even now, serves more passengers than Cardiff. It's worth highlighting this - as this presumably means Prestwick and Cardiff actually don't have the scale of activities to which Shannon might aspire. No point in drawing inspiration from examples that are no more, or even less, successful than we are ourselves.

[Schuhart]

There should be a rule against making three post in a row.

Anyway, the Booz report is now out.

Department of Transport: Publications

The bottom line seems to be to split off Shannon Airport, and give it to Clare County Council/Limerick County Council/Shannon Development. Any ongoing deficit would, presumably, be for those bodies to fund. The predictable argument would be how much of Shannon Airport's debts should go with it; in other words, the extent to which Shannon will be allowed to give the DAA one last kick in the bollocks.

There was a proposal something like this in the past, but I don't know how it ended. It involved the possibility of transferring Shannon Development's assets to the SAA, including whatever rental income it makes.

Shannon transfer 'not fait accompli', admits Harney - National News - Independent.ie

Monday June 28 2004

CONTENTIOUS government plans to transfer the control of the Shannon Free Zone from Shannon Development to the incoming Shannon Airport Authority "is by no means a fait accompli", according to Tanaiste Mary Harney.

But she said there was a need to strengthen the asset base of Shannon airport, noting that Shannon Development currently has assets worth 260m.

[Sailor]

There should be a rule against making three post in a row.

Anyway, the Booz report is now out.

Department of Transport: Publications

The bottom line seems to be to split off Shannon Airport, and give it to Clare County Council/Limerick County Council/Shannon Development. Any ongoing deficit would, presumably, be for those bodies to fund. The predictable argument would be how much of Shannon Airport's debts should go with it; in other words, the extent to which Shannon will be allowed to give the DAA one last kick in the bollocks.

There was a proposal something like this in the past, but I don't know how it ended. It involved the possibility of transferring Shannon Development's assets to the SAA, including whatever rental income it makes.

No reason why Shannon should not have its debt written down based on its fair share of future revenue from ARI. SNN with 100m debt is simply not tenable and there is absolutely no reason why DAA Dub should get all ARI revenue.