LUAS fares for some, free for others...

[Camper Van]

As above, I grew up near Neilstown and have many in my own family whom you're talking about there and most of these people are career spongers of the state who think it's the states job to cloth, feed and pay their rent until they die. I should know I have close relatives who are these people and who is the fool? Me getting out of bed at 7am every day to work and have the same money as them when my bills and expenses are paid?

So we should give them leeway to not pay their fare on the luas/bus because they excluded? They excluded themselves. I lived/live around the social underclass and they've excluded themselves.

+1. Plus the fact that crime pays in Ireland, whether youre a fare dodging welfare sponging crackhead, a crooked politician or a devloper. Ever see the show customs on RTE where they focus on the cigarette smuggling racket?-its a total joke. Its worth peoples while to try this-the worst that can happen to them is that the cigarettes get confiscated and they are free to try again. Just a few examples.

Its safe enough though to send people to jail for owing their credit union €500 when they've lost their jobs.

The revlotuion can't come quick enough.

[rigumagoo]

you need to pay to use the Luas?

[Grumpy Jack]

This is nothing to do with the recession, the bank crisis, Budget cuts or job losses.

It has been going on since the first Luas tram ran. Happened right through the boom and long before that. Same on the buses and the Dart when they can get away with it. I've seen plenty of over the last 30 years since I first got the bus to school. There are certain people who just won't pay the fare because the feel they shouldn't have to pay a fare.

Most people who didn't have the bus or Luas or Dart fare would rather walk than risk the shame of getting caught, never mind the subsequent fine. But then there are quite a few people out there who have no shame - and they're not all in Leinster House or the banks.

[typical]

As above, I grew up near Neilstown and have many in my own family whom you're talking about there and most of these people are career spongers of the state who think it's the states job to cloth, feed and pay their rent until they die. I should know I have close relatives who are these people and who is the fool? Me getting out of bed at 7am every day to work and have the same money as them when my bills and expenses are paid?

So we should give them leeway to not pay their fare on the luas/bus because they excluded? They excluded themselves. I lived/live around the social underclass and they've excluded themselves.

I'm not claiming they should receive any leeway, I'm pointing out the fact that the reason they didn't pay their fare wasn't something they thought about, it was pure social conditioning, in exactly the same way as it was social conditioning that makes everyone else pay it.

Everyone in their peer group would tell them, strongly, that they shouldn't pay. Wider society expects them not to pay. If this is the case, why would they pay?

Calling people wasters and spongers, or claiming people exclude themselves, is total crap. We're all a product of our upbringing and the social conditioning we receive. We can move away from it but we can't leave it behind completely, you can pretend to be a foaming righting twat but you're still wearing your labels on your sleeve, literally.

[Mitsui2]

Luas inspectors have no right of arrest. They have no legal power to require you to identify yourself. It is very difficult legally to make travelling without a ticket a crime (or it is if you don't want to put off the punters by having Gestapo-like inspectors demanding your Ausweis!)

Most countries have such functionaries on public transport. I thought we had them ourselves! They're known as ticket inspectors. In my experience they're not normally considered to be refugees from the Gestapo.

[liamfoley]

This is the real problem.

People at the top must lead by example. They dont.

End of story.

You are saying that people (especially the poor and undereducated) need leadership and if they see the wealthy not playing by the rules then they should not play by the rules either.
O really?
Nothing about responsibility and virtue.
Sure no wonder the country is in the circumstances it is.
People need leadership.
Pha!

[Q-Tours]

Most countries have such functionaries on public transport. I thought we had them ourselves! They're known as ticket inspectors. In my experience they're not normally considered to be refugees from the Gestapo.

The point I meant to make was that we haven't yet got to a stage where police etc can demand identification (as far as I'm aware anyway!)

I think you can make an exception for driving licences because they are evidence of having been tested to drive etc: they aren't primarily ID.

I have no problem with ticket inspectors.

[CptSternn]

I've seen this many times over.

Usually its someone who at least pretends not to speak english, and acts like they have no idea whats going on.

You also have the junkies who just say they have no home or ID and they get off as well.

It's only people who are honest who get fined.

They can demand you have ID when you drive a vehicle, they can demand you have an ID when you get on a plane, they can demand you have ID to enter a pub - I don't see why having a law to make sure you have proper ID on the Luas is such a stretch.

Who doesn't have some form of ID in todays society? I'm sure there may be a few exceptions, but even the dole office makes you have proper ID these days sure.

You should have to have ID on the Luas and if you are caught without it, it should be an offense. They have cameras in place, it's not like it wouldn't be easy to prosecute in court.

[Super8]

...Any decent working individual seems to have to pay for tickets but not junkies or people from certain areas...

Certain areas? Nice middle class sweeping generalisation there.

I think you'll find there are plenty of so called 'respectable' people from the nicer parts of Dublin who are habitual offenders and don't pay their fares, parking fees, TV licences, tradesmen, taxes, etc.

[reknaw]

I can travel free on the Luas - legally - but have never been checked by an inspector.

Right now I'm in Helsinki and always pay using my mobile phone when I travel on a tram or the Metro - even if I'm only going one stop.

I won't claim it's all down to innate honesty, but rather to the knowledge that getting caught travelling without a valid ticket just isn't worth it. It means I have to pay a €65 "inspection fee" plus the price of a ticket. Since the inspectors usually come in fours, sometimes out of uniform, and they have "police authority", it is pointless to try to just walk away until I have produced ID and they have written a demand for payment that must be made within a certain period. Or else!

Sometimes I just can't believe the stuff that happens in Ireland. If scumbags can milk the system with impunity in such matters, no wonder they do so on an even bigger scale if they ever get power of any kind.