AA Roadwatch report major traffic jams in Newry as public sector workers go shopping.

[zakalwe1]

What happened in Industrial schools is solely the fault of the church, they administered them and they horrifically abused those children. The Church hampered all investigation into the allegations. It was the State that pursued that investigation.

i can't believe you just said that....and worse, believe that.

[Newsy]

Reading this thread, I can't believe what is emerging, in this country.

Just because there was a tailback around Newry, it MUST be the PS on mass going shopping. So it is an ALL ATTACK on the PS today. I wonder who will the whipping boy be tomorrow??

Does this country need reform, at all levels, public AND private.....of course it does. But one sector beating up the other, isn't going to help or advance this country in a positive way. It is probaly going to hinder us.

Private needs public.....AND public needs private.

It is very handy to have labels of 'public' and 'private', but there are people, behind such lables. People who work in the private AND public sector, are under pressure with mortgage payments, debt, sickness, worried about the future, worried about the future for their children.....worried about the future of their country.

Does this country need reform....MASSIVELY. ALL SECTORS. But pitting one sector against the other, isn't going to help.

There is a vaccumn in this country.....a leadership vaccumn. And in such a void we blame eachother, attack eachother. Would we have done this, say, 18 months ago? I doubt it. When we pit one group against the other, we are pitting family against family, friend against friend and this is a time when we need to unite.....not to divide. We all have family and friends, in both.

We are all afraid, afraid for our futures and our families. Lets not let that fear take over this country. Can we not be bigger than that? Can we not be a prouder people, than that?

I believe we can and I believe we need to be. Where this country will be in 10 or 15 years from now, depends on all of us. We really need to, on a national level, be bigger than accusing a group, on mass, (without ANY evidence) of going shopping for a day. (And by the way, IF Irish shoppers hadn't shopped in the north in the past months, prices in the south, WOULDN'T have come down).

[Cato]

Reading this thread, I can't believe what is emerging, in this country.

Just because there was a tailback around Newry, it MUST be the PS on mass going shopping. So it is an ALL ATTACK on the PS today. I wonder who will the whipping boy be tomorrow??

Does this country need reform, at all levels, public AND private.....of course it does. But one sector beating up the other, isn't going to help or advance this country in a positive way. It is probaly going to hinder us.

Private needs public.....AND public needs private.

It is very handy to have labels of 'public' and 'private', but there are people, behind such lables. People who work in the private AND public sector, are under pressure with mortgage payments, debt, sickness, worried about the future, worried about the future for their children.....worried about the future of their country.

Does this country need reform....MASSIVELY. ALL SECTORS. But pitting one sector against the other, isn't going to help.

There is a vaccumn in this country.....a leadership vaccumn. And in such a void we blame eachother, attack eachother. Would we have done this, say, 18 months ago? I doubt it. When we pit one group against the other, we are pitting family against family, friend against friend and this is a time when we need to unite.....not to unite. We all have family and friends, in both.

We are all afraid, afraid for our futures and our families. Lets not let that fear take over this country. Can we not be bigger than that? Can we not be a prouder people, than that?

I believe we can and I believe we need to be. Where this country will be in 10 or 15 years from now, depends on all of us. We really need to, on a national level, be bigger than accusing a group, on mass, (without ANY evidence) of going shopping for a day. (And by the way, IF Irish shoppers hadn't shopped in the north in the past months, prices in the south, WOULDN'T have come down).

+1

[myksav]

It’s a circular argument. Both sectors are interdependent and rely on each other.

The rub is that tax payers do not get to tell PS workers how to do their jobs or even how much they get paid, that is Governments job and that’s where your anger should be focused, not some nurse run off her feet in a bureaucratic nightmare continuing under the nose of Mary Harney, or some teacher trying to instil knowledge into a bunch of rowdy teenagers and doing very well by international standards.

As for the police. Imagine this country without them.

The PS looks to be acting as a single entity, so it will be treated and seen as a single entity.

As to policing. Ever find one when you need one? Given the seen lack of garda activity about the country in general, they're not an excellent example of absolute need.

Without private sector taxes, the public sector would not get paid. Without the public sector, the private sector still gets paid for their work.

By the way, I likely paid for your education via all the taxes I paid. Public has more need of private sector than vice versa.

Public sector wastes without any, or much, penalty. Private sector waste gets punished very quickly by competition.
If private sector upped sticks and left, the public sector would not survive. The same cannot be said in reverse.

Did you hear about Athlone? The only Public Sector to do their job was/is the Army. The local council workers were on the strike as advised by the Unions. Public servants? Service? Showering themselves in glory, they're not. And you're 'wondering' why there's so much growing antipathy toward the PS. (shakes head in disappointment)

As a PR exercise, it's been a failure. People are seeing the PS as not having any concern with the general population.

Oh well, carry on with your strikes. It won't help you. And the ones that will be most effected by the antipathy are the lower paid PS workers, the ones seen on the picket lines. The ones that the private sector had some sympathy for up to now.

Did any Union rep ever hear the phrase "shooting yourself in the foot"? How about "putting your dick on the anvil under the hammer"?

[LINUSSdad]

The PS looks to be acting as a single entity, so it will be treated and seen as a single entity.

As to policing. Ever find one when you need one? Given the seen lack of garda activity about the country in general, they're not an excellent example of absolute need.

Without private sector taxes, the public sector would not get paid. Without the public sector, the private sector still gets paid for their work.

By the way, I likely paid for your education via all the taxes I paid. Public has more need of private sector than vice versa.

Public sector wastes without any, or much, penalty. Private sector waste gets punished very quickly by competition.
If private sector upped sticks and left, the public sector would not survive. The same cannot be said in reverse.

Did you hear about Athlone? The only Public Sector to do their job was/is the Army. The local council workers were on the strike as advised by the Unions. Public servants? Service? Showering themselves in glory, they're not. And you're 'wondering' why there's so much growing antipathy toward the PS. (shakes head in disappointment)

As a PR exercise, it's been a failure. People are seeing the PS as not having any concern with the general population.

Oh well, carry on with your strikes. It won't help you. And the ones that will be most effected by the antipathy are the lower paid PS workers, the ones seen on the picket lines. The ones that the private sector had some sympathy for up to now.

Did any Union rep ever hear the phrase "shooting yourself in the foot"? How about "putting your dick on the anvil under the hammer"?

+1

[cctvstar]

I work in the public service and I spent last week agonising over whether I would pass the picket. I decided not to in solidarity with colleagues. Someone suggested that these people going North are as likely to be parents whose kids are off school. There may be a PS element but don't assume that it is. Also don't forget VAT was increased in the Oct 2008 budget. Not a great move.

I don't think I would support another day of action.

Parents with kids off school are more likely to slip up the north while kids are at school not pay for childcare when kids are not occupied in school all day - in fact most parents going up north would be getting stuff for their kids for christmas hardly likely to bring kids with? Just don't get that one sorry - as a parent I might add who had to take a day off work to take care of my kids because they were not at school.

[Kevin Doyle]

The PS looks to be acting as a single entity, so it will be treated and seen as a single entity."?

What ever this has to do with anything is anyone’s guess.

As to policing. Ever find one when you need one? Given the seen lack of garda activity about the country in general, they're not an excellent example of absolute need.

I asked you to imagine what this country would be like without them, not offer a platitude and a well worn cliché. Without the police we would have anarchy. Is that what you want?

Without private sector taxes, the public sector would not get paid. Without the public sector, the private sector still gets paid for their work..

You simply do not understand the interdependency of either. You seem to think that a feudal system is the private sector working in isolation, it isn’t. What you are advocating is a Libertarian everyman for himself economy which would deliver us a dystopian nightmare.

By the way, I likely paid for your education via all the taxes I paid. Public has more need of private sector than vice versa.

All you showing here is that you have no idea how valuable education is to the economy and how it fundamentally facilitates innovation. Not to mention the invaluable contribution the health service provides to business lowering the levels of illness in general and getting those who are ill back to work quicker.

Public sector wastes without any, or much, penalty. Private sector waste gets punished very quickly by competition..

That’s a very naive understanding of how private companies operate in this country, it’s an equatory statement that doesn’t hold up in the real world. Waste is endemic within the Private sector as well, there are many many companies in operation today that offer appalling products/service at rip off prices and still make profits. NTL being a prime example.

[quote=myksav;2296027]If private sector upped sticks and left, the public sector would not survive. The same cannot be said in reverse

Yes it could, the private sector could not survive without the public sector, as I said we would return to feudalism and that would not be a private sector operating in isolation. It would be anarchy.

Did you hear about Athlone? The only Public Sector to do their job was/is the Army. The local council workers were on the strike as advised by the Unions. Public servants? Service? Showering themselves in glory, they're not. And you're 'wondering' why there's so much growing antipathy toward the PS. (shakes head in disappointment)...

What the hell are you talking about?

As a PR exercise, it's been a failure. People are seeing the PS as not having any concern with the general population.

It wasn't a PR exercise. The PS knows the government has stirred up resent toward it. But personally the level of support we received on the picket was remarkable, judging by the level of vitriol on this site and in the Indo I was expecting to be pelted with rotten fruit, viciously abused and spat on. It didn’t happen and the word from other pickets is the same, a surprising level of support where hostility and some degree of confrontation was expected.

Oh well, carry on with your strikes. It won't help you. And the ones that will be most effected by the antipathy are the lower paid PS workers, the ones seen on the picket lines. The ones that the private sector had some sympathy for up to now."?

This is meaningless.

Did any Union rep ever hear the phrase "shooting yourself in the foot"? How about "putting your dick on the anvil under the hammer"?

That’s just your opinion, you are of course entitled to it, but tell that to the people of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Ennis.

[Wakeupcall]

Have you any idea of the chronic poverty that prevailed during the 1900's. There was nothing civilised about it unless of course you lived in Merrion Square. Such a rudimentary regard for the levels of entrenched poverty before state welfare was introduced is remarkable but is explains a lot.

Why do you think SW introduced in the first place if everything was so rosy without it?







That’s a stunningly stupid thing to say.



That’s an astonishing insight, no doubt gleaned by dutifully watching every episode of Law and Order.

Without the Judicial system, business in this country would effectively grind to halt.



What happened in Industrial schools is solely the fault of the church, they administered them and they horrifically abused those children. The Church hampered all investigation into the allegations. It was the State that pursued that investigation.

The Mayans, Egyptians and other civilisations thrived btw. Constructing marvels that we cannot properly figure out how they were constructed with all of our modern knowledge today.

[Wakeupcall]

Parents with kids off school are more likely to slip up the north while kids are at school not pay for childcare when kids are not occupied in school all day - in fact most parents going up north would be getting stuff for their kids for christmas hardly likely to bring kids with? Just don't get that one sorry - as a parent I might add who had to take a day off work to take care of my kids because they were not at school.

Indeed

[Kevin Doyle]

The Mayans, Egyptians and other civilisations thrived btw. Constructing marvels that we cannot properly figure out how they were constructed with all of our modern knowledge.

Using slavery and working conditions that resulted in countless deaths. They also systematically sacrificed people. Would you prefer our work practices revert back to such barbarous levels?

But again you are equating these endeavours as strictly private sector endeavours. Under feudalism there is no private sector, there are elites and serfs.