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  1. #131
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ned green View Post
    Best of luck with your suggestions,something needs to be done quickly,especially with disasterous managers like Kearns.Maybe Big Phil will take note and do something useful for a change.
    That's wishful, to say the least.
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  2. #132
    ned green ned green is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    So you just want anything to replace the current system? No preferences?
    Of course less well heeled overpaid fat cat useless managers,and more emphases on local democracy.
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  3. #133
    4horsemen 4horsemen is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    Name one country is the world with only 4 primary/local administrative units. Mini-states excluded. And trust me, that will result in Healy-Rae politics, especially outside Dublin.
    .

    So if you think 4 is too few how many do you suggest? Say take as comparisons Denmark with 5, Netherlands 12 and Austria 9. Also, how about aim that 30% of expenditure be done through regional goverment and have it raised within the region.
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  4. #134
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4horsemen View Post
    .Say take as comparisons Denmark with 5, Netherlands 12 and Austria 9.
    Wrong on Austria, Netherlands and Denmark. They have many administrive units under their Regions. They have far more than 5-12 administrive units.
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  5. #135
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ned green View Post
    Of course less well heeled overpaid fat cat useless managers,and more emphases on local democracy.
    Agreed.
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  6. #136
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4horsemen View Post
    .
    So if you think 4 is too few how many do you suggest? Also, how about aim that 30% of expenditure be done through regional goverment and have it raised within the region.
    I suggest approx. 7 regions, with populations of 400,000 at the absolute minimum. Also, while I believe that most of the Region's income must be internally sourced, I would also favour a block grant system in conjunction, only enough to prevent the poorer regions going into poverty.
    Last edited by Toman13; 14th August 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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  7. #137
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by brughahaha View Post
    So we pay 4 million alone ( or 40,000 household charges, or 4 % of the total of proposed collection ) in County managers wages alone , probably more ........ wow

    then under each of them a legion of Department heads on huge wages too ...... For pretty much nonexistant or crap local services

    When will this Government step up to the plate and end this financial waste and lunacy ........... AS PROMISED!!
    If they were even given anything important to do, I wouldn't mind, TBH. It's the fact that they are paid this much to act as little more than a glorified maintenance committee is what really pis*es me off.
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  8. #138
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieandrews View Post
    Glad to hear you've enjoyed your visits to Sligo, maybe there is hope, different story living there though!!
    Whenever I was there, the Traffic was horrendous altogether. That would need to be fixed if Sligo is going to develop.
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  9. #139
    beazlebottom beazlebottom is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    I believe in the principle of Subsidiarity, where decisions are made on the lowest level viable, e.g. more decisions made below National level. As a member of the EU, we have sworn to follow that principle. I also believe that fiscal responsibility is the best solution, in most cases, for developing a region or area. Grants and other means usually result in a bloated Public Sector, and little development outside that.

    When an area has to take fiscal responsibilities, aka, having to find the money itself, in order to run the administration of it's jurisdiction, it is encouraged to find the most efficient way possible of doing so, because if it screws up, there is consequences(aka fiscal crises and the politicians responsible are out on their asses).

    Our system of Local Government is the weakest in Europe, with over 97% of all fiscal decisions made at National level. That is a very high level of Centralisation, and it is still as exposed to corruption as a proper de-centralised system of governance, if not more so.
    Subsidiarity does not mean delegating responsibility and decision making to blatantly incompetent parish pump incompetents with a track record of waste and fecklessness!
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  10. #140
    GJG GJG is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    For a start, I believe that that "culture" was created partly because of weak local administration. So instead on getting on to the local council to deal with the issues that usually crop up in everyday life, people are not only encouraged to ask National Politicians to deal with these issues, but local identity also becomes less and less important, and is replaced instead with the priority being within one's immediate family and social circle. So I believe that it's a symptom to be cured, rather than an obstacle to be overcome.
    You don't even have to go to your Local Authority, you can switch on Oireachtas Report and see that there simply isn't enough talent in the country to make what you are suggesting feasible. We can't even fill our (admittedly oversized) national parliament with people who can speak coherently, let alone make wise decisions. What makes you think we can do that scores of times over in different local councils?

    The structures are a function of the people in them. They are rife with featherbedding and people with a sneaking suspicion that they are doing a crap job, and therefore sabotage their workplaces to make sure nobody shows them up. A smaller number of decision-makers means that, on average, they are better quality. Adding more means scraping the barrel more.

    Just look at how these people behave when they have real power, in planning and zoning.

    Private organisations go out of business if they are not efficient, so they give a good template for achieving efficiency. A person or department performing below par will quickly have responsibilities and budget cut, not increased. This minimises damage and motivates performance.

    Your idea of rewarding failure with more money and more power simply does not work in the real world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    Also, Ireland's Local authorities, are not small, at least not in a European Context. In fact, we have among the largest local authorities within Europe. Don't believe me? I send this link at least a dozen times before, but here it is again - http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...ment-print.pdf


    My ideal local authorities would have populations between 26,000(For the Donegal Gaeltacht area) to 300,000(Limerick/Cork and metropolitan areas). I am debating with myself whether or not to including another layer of councils in places such as the North-West, with between 100,000-250,000 for some functions to be devolved to them instead of a Regional authority, and the Regions should have an absolute minimum of 400,000. I would recommend around 7 for this country.
    First of all, we already have two local authorities as big as your 'regions'. Yet another 'layer' is a horrendous idea. It means that anyone anywhere can always find someone else to blame, and none of them would even need to do any work, but I want to tackle your idea of devolving health to local government.

    Maybe you are unaware that county councils ran the Health Boards before they were abolished. It was a catastrophe, and is the genesis of most of our health problems today. But now medicine is much more specialised. Multi-disciplinary teams work in tiny specialities, and survival rates for, say, different cancers are improving rapidly.

    They need ever larger populations to generate the number of cases in ever narrower specialities. Even at 400k, there are now many ailments where that population would not generate enough cases to keep up the skills of a multi-disciplinary team.

    This is exactly what I mean when I say that technology is forcing centralisation and specialisation - 30 years ago there were thousands of companies manufacturing computers, now there are maybe a dozen. Would you like to use a computer - or get medical treatment - from today, or from 30 years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    That's why I think that they [County Managers] should be given more to do - it will focus their minds.
    Toman, I understand that you have no experience of workplaces, and that is showing through here, so you will just have to believe me when I say that the world simply doesn't work like that.
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