Why is unity so important?

[Denis]

I'm new here (but not to politics) so be gentle...

Why is unity of Ireland so important to nationalists? I mean, there is little, if anything, which seperates the people of Ireland with the people of Britain... We watch the same films, read the same books, follow the same football teams (In this manner I am significantly much more nationalist than most Shinners in that I follow my local team) so what distincts us?

Why then, if we are so similar to Britain do the nationalist community of Northern Ireland wish to secede?

Also, what are your opinions on the European Union as a vehicle to drive Irish unity?

(Again, I beg you, please don't eat me alive)

[factual]

In this manner I am significantly much more nationalist than most Shinners in that I follow my local team)

What is this supposed to mean?

[Sidewinder]

Freedom to run your own affairs in the manner that seems good to you of course.

Maybe you prefer having other self-appointed Superior Beings telling you what to do though.

Partition is holding the country back from fulfilling its potential. The border region of the south is poorer than the rest because of the distorting effects of the border. A huge pool of labour is laying around massively under-utilised in the north and southern border region.

I would also strongly disagree that we are "exactly the same" as the British. There is a fundamentally different outlook on world affairs, a different way of organising society, a host of different attitudes to all sorts of things. Superficially we consume the same pop-culture media (a mix of US, British and Australian TV, films, music) but that has a lot to do with the fact we are English-speaking.

Man Utd are huge in some parts of Asia. Should they apply to join the UK as well?

Do you think the south is better off running its own affairs or would you be happy rejoining the UK? Think about that for just one second.

[Denis]

I support Monaghan United FC... Most Shinners I know support MAN UTD FC!

[ireland2004]

I support Monaghan United FC... Most Shinners I know support MAN UTD FC!

Well jaysus mary and saint joseph there it is... I'm off to join the UUP now.

[Denis]

Maybe you prefer having other self-appointed Superior Beings telling you what to do though.

Whats the difference between a few hundred tyrants in London and a hundred and something tyrants in Dublin? Answer - The tyrants in Dublin make better whiskey!

Partition is holding the country back from fulfilling its potential. The border region of the south is poorer than the rest because of the distorting effects of the border. A huge pool of labour is laying around massively under-utilised in the north and southern border region.

Its not really. I'm from Monaghan and I should know. Anyway, under the EU (Hopefully will end up as a Superstate) we have free movement of goods, labour, capital etc. Also, the border is much much freerer in recent years with all the military outposts gone. Travelling from Armagh to Monaghan is generally stress and trouble free.

I would also strongly disagree that we are "exactly the same" as the British. There is a fundamentally different outlook on world affairs, a different way of organising society, a host of different attitudes to all sorts of things. Superficially we consume the same pop-culture media (a mix of US, British and Australian TV, films, music) but that has a lot to do with the fact we are English-speaking.

Thats simply a matter of opinion, and has no logical or rational backing (You cannot for example, argue that a woman in Westmeath thinks about the Israel conflict any differently than a woman in Yorkshire - in most cases they couldn't care less)

Man Utd are huge in some parts of Asia. Should they apply to join the UK as well?

You've quite a skill there... Manipulating what I have to say. Stay on topic please.

Do you think the south is better off running its own affairs or would you be happy rejoining the UK? Think about that for just one second.

Wuite frankly I couldn't care less if a government from Cairo ran my country, as long as they give me a certain degree of liberty, provide a rough framework of services and don't tax me too highly I'm happy. Satan himself could be the Taioseach, I couldn't care less.

[ON THE ONE ROAD]

Do you think the south is better off running its own affairs or would you be happy rejoining the UK? Think about that for just one second.

Wuite frankly I couldn't care less if a government from Cairo ran my country, as long as they give me a certain degree of liberty, provide a rough framework of services and don't tax me too highly I'm happy. Satan himself could be the Taioseach, I couldn't care less.

roll on that european superstate

[Sidewinder]

Quite frankly I couldn't care less if a government from Cairo ran my country, as long as they give me a certain degree of liberty, provide a rough framework of services and don't tax me too highly I'm happy. Satan himself could be the Taioseach, I couldn't care less.

Then why bother with this thread? You've obviously made the decision that you don't believe in nation-states and hence any form of nationalism, so you're never going to understand why people want to have their own parliament in their own country. So there's not much point in you going on at nationalists, is there? Two utterly different worldviews.

You might be perfectly happy letting far away people run your essential services with limited or non-existant democratic accountability, but most people on the planet would disagree.

The attitude you endorse here is very much a minority view, wouldn't you agree? Most people, if you got them to consider the matter for a minute, would prefer their Government to be locals. At least that way, they might be bastards, but they are our bastards. And we know where to get hold of them if Government isn't working in the interests of the people....

Do you not think that such a detached and disinterested view of the relationship between citizens and their state is really pretty dangerous? If nobody cares, that far away Government in Cairo/Brussels/Beijing/Geneva could be getting up to all sorts in your name. It strikes me as almost wilfully refusing to consider the lessons of history.

And (not having a go personally, this is just my opinion of the views you describe which I've encountered before) it's also a wee bit...gormless. Middle-management type behaviour. Hand it all over to someone else so I don't have to worry about it or take responsibility for it. Do nothing, keep the head down, look after #1.

I don't think such views could create a stable, prosperous and progressive society if they were the majority view.

[ireland2004]

Its not really. I'm from Monaghan and I should know.

Thats simply a matter of opinion, and has no logical or rational backing (You cannot for example, argue that a woman in Westmeath thinks about the Israel conflict any differently than a woman in Yorkshire - in most cases they couldn't care less)

Are you suggesting that your argument is stronger because the average woman in Westmeath and Yorkshire couldn't care less about the Israel conflict? Seriously?

You've quite a skill there... Manipulating what I have to say. Stay on topic please.

But they are. I also hear they're growing in popularity over in the US as well. His point his as much on-topic as your nonsense is. Anyway, the Monaghan Gaelic Football team are more popular than Man United in Monaghan but I doubt they're popular anywhere in England.

[sean1]

The majority of foreigners probably think that we are an Irish-speaking country. Hence a lot of them are surprised when they find out we aren't and an even bigger majority are suprised when they come here to see the hatred many people have of the Irish language.

It is totally ironic that the majority of Irish people don't speak Irish. There are several peripherial reasons why we don't, but the main reason is that most of us are happy with our lot of the GAA, Irish dancing and music and the Anglo-American media. We also have TG4 to make us feel good about ourslelves anyway!

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said that we are the "biggest lunatic asylum" on the plantet. I would contest that e.g look at Beirut and other places! However, he said that a long time ago, and while we aren't that bad any more we are still a bit of a lunatic asylum.

Shinners underestimate the number of Anglo-Irish- people who are proud of their British culture- in the country and the latter, well... I don't really care just at once they aren't anti-indigenous culture.

We are mostly a joke of a people.