Arthur Morgan urging SF delegates to do another U-Turn

[Deep Throat]

"It makes clear that local councillors no longer have the power to abolish bin charges, that these charges are imposed by central government in conjunction with city and county managers. It reiterates our determination to oppose bin charges and take that campaign to those who have the power to remove the charges.
Adoption of motion 98 as it stands would actually dis-empower our councillors. Do we want to throw away the ability of our councillors to achieve actual gains for the communities they represent? If by voting against estimates meant we could prevent the introduction of bin charges, then I would support motion 98. But this is not the case. If Sinn Féin had a majority on every council in the state we still could not abolish bin charges. The amendment from the Ard Comhairle seeks to put an end to the myth that by voting against estimates we have the ability to abolish bin charges.
it would be a tactical mistake to tie the hands of all our councillors in relation to decisions on whether to vote for or against estimates. This decision must be made on a case by case basis in conjunction with the party leadership. We cannot allow all decisions to be taken based on the false premise that by voting against estimates we can bring about the abolition of bin charges. I strongly urge delegates to stand by the sensible position adopted at last year's Ard Fheis"-ARTHUR MORGAN T.D.

[DOD]

There is no U-Turn on this. The position last year was that extreme circumstances would be taken into account. This motion was proposed by Munster Ógra and I was in the room at the time, but I had a problem with it. The problem with the system at the moment is the non-uniformity. In many places across Ireland, bin charges are not a major bone of contention because they have been there for ages. This makes it harder to campaign on. I think saying to someone vote against this or leave is a bit strong. I think most would instinctively vote against estimates anyway, but compelling someone to do so is a bit strong.

[Deep Throat]

so service charges are ok if people accept them?
you've given the game away now!
it's all about protesting for the sake of it!
if the people oppose something so will sf, if they dont ah sure what the heck??

[DOD]

so service charges are ok if people accept them?
you've given the game away now!
it's all about protesting for the sake of it!
if the people oppose something so will sf, if they dont ah sure what the heck??

I didn't say that, I'm just saying you have to look at the whole story. Besides, forcing a person to vote a certain way is not something our members take kindly to. A motion on not paying the affiliation fee to Labour was defeated for that very reason. Now, all due respects to Padraig Malone who spoke against it, he's a grand fella, but I disagreed with him, nonetheless the majority of people felt the principle of being 'instructed' was the crux of the issue. Perhaps people felt similarly on this issue?

[David Cochrane]

ANOTHER SF Ard Fheis thread?

[joemomma]

ANOTHER SF Ard Fheis thread?

Yes, and it appears that Arthur Morgan didn't even have a baby - he's off-message

[Grá gan uaigneas]

I didn't say that, I'm just saying you have to look at the whole story. Besides, forcing a person to vote a certain way is not something our members take kindly to. A motion on not paying the affiliation fee to Labour was defeated for that very reason. Now, all due respects to Padraig Malone who spoke against it, he's a grand fella, but I disagreed with him, nonetheless the majority of people felt the principle of being 'instructed' was the crux of the issue. Perhaps people felt similarly on this issue?

Exactly my mentality. As much as I agree with the motions, instructing people as to how they vote is not what I'm about.

[Wednesday]

The amendment Arthur spoke in favour of was adopted at last year's Ard Fheis and guess what? In the intervening year our councillors STILL voted against service charges. They were required to do so unless they presented the Ard Chomhairle with a really good reason why they should vote in favour of estimates that contained service charges. Now they aren't even allowed to make that argument. It's a well meaning but ultimately poor decision IMHO.

[The Deise Man]

The amendment Arthur spoke in favour of was adopted at last year's Ard Fheis and guess what? In the intervening year our councillors STILL voted against service charges. They were required to do so unless they presented the Ard Chomhairle with a really good reason why they should vote in favour of estimates that contained service charges. Now they aren't even allowed to make that argument. It's a well meaning but ultimately poor decision IMHO.

I read in the Irish Times that the motion was passed. I also read that Waterford delegates argued strongly in favor - is this true?

I dont see why SF people on this site have a problem with the motion. SF elected reps should be compelled to uphold party policy and failure to do so would result in councillors up and down the country voting differently on all sorts of issues.

[DOD]

The amendment Arthur spoke in favour of was adopted at last year's Ard Fheis and guess what? In the intervening year our councillors STILL voted against service charges. They were required to do so unless they presented the Ard Chomhairle with a really good reason why they should vote in favour of estimates that contained service charges. Now they aren't even allowed to make that argument. It's a well meaning but ultimately poor decision IMHO.

I read in the Irish Times that the motion was passed. I also read that Waterford delegates argued strongly in favor - is this true?

Funnily enough, most of the people arguing for it at Munster Ógra were involved in Waterford as well. I just thought it was worded a bit strongly. Still though, I imagine most would vote against estimates with bin charges anyway. I just think more effort should be put into finding an alternative way of funding refuse charges throughout the WHOLE of the 26 counties, through direct taxation.