Republican Unity?

[Seamus]

Apart from all the blaring sell-outs and other political problems that republicans have with the provisionals another major stumbling block in republican unity is that republicans simply dont trust adams and his people and some republicans have nearly as much contempt and hatred for adams as they have for the brits.

the psf people in this forum will "if and but" at that statement but there is no way they can deny that the leadership of provisional sinn fein has lied and lied to them on several occasions and these lies has been well documented and the rsf supporters will have duly stated these in the past in here im sure.

Not only that but other non psf political issues still rankle with republicans such as the widely held belief that some of the provo leadership had blatantly sabotaged men and operations for their own political ends like the loughgall men and libyan weapons etc.

The majority of genuine Irish republicans in this country are strongly socialist.

you would be looking extremely hard to find a socialist in rural areas let alone a republican socialist.

[FutureTaoiseach]

The majority of genuine Irish republicans in this country are strongly socialist.

There is zero evidence for that. I'm a republican and I am the exact opposite of socialist.

[jjacollins]

The problem is that physical force movements, be they left or right wing, tend to appeal to "feelers" rather than "thinkers", tend to be led by individuals with powerful personalities, and tend to made up of people for whom principles are of major importance, people who view minor differences as major issues, and they subsequently involve frequent personality clashes. Splits are especially frequent in left wing movements in particular, as their members tend to be anti-authoritarian in outlook, and feel they should not be required to follow a leadership they disagree with ('the first item on the agenda of any republican group is a split' etc).

Even if your call for republican unity were answered, the new one republican movement would start splitting after a few years.

I agree and disagree with what your saying.

Firstly all Republicans are not physical force. In fact only a tiny minority are at present and even they have been quiet for many years.

Secondly, There will be no split if things are based on core pricniples of republicanism. These are things that nobody can disagree with and no infighting can occur about. Much like the SF of 1917 to 21.
They had a core belief and that held them through.

Republican principles can be based on the fact that the NE is Irish territory and contains a large amount of the Irish nation. That it is best that it come under Irish rule and so on.

The principle of consent is recognised by all in the game at present and it is up to Republicans to make sure that when the Irish in the NE become the majority that Unionist/ Loyalists live up to their big words over the years.

[smiffy]

Secondly, There will be no split if things are based on core pricniples of republicanism. These are things that nobody can disagree with and no infighting can occur about.

What about, say, the principle of abstentionism from the Leinster House Dáil and from the Stormont Assembly?

[seamusc]

Respectfully, if you ask 100 people who the republican party is I doubt that 10 will pick FF.

But if you ask 100 people what a republican is, most of them willl answer that its someone who supports using force to achieve a united Ireland/supports the IRA campaign. They won't answer that its someone who supports the socialist ideals of 1798, as expressed in the 1916 Proclamation, and who therefore views national unity as the only way of achieveing social equality and fairness.

Just because someone says they are a republican does not mean that they are. George Bush says he is a republican, but certainly not in the European sense.

Someone who hates the Brits, unionists and is opposed to the brotherhood of European nations is not a true republican in the vision of Wolfe Tone. As a result, most shinners might call themselves republicans but are actually extreme nationalists.

[Risteard]

My view is that groups like RSF, seeing as how they have no alternative of their own, should rejoin SF and give their input.

How can you possibly claim that RSF has no alternative of their own?

Furthermore, RSF cannot rejoin SF - RSF is Sinn Féin.

[Risteard]

then a small haemorageing to RSF and 32CSM since 1994.

The 32CSC did not exist in 1994.

[Genral E.E]

Right, since I started this I might as well give you al the reason that I thought of it.
At the moment the government is being run by the PD's, this is because if Bertie & co. go against the PD's they will pull out of the Dáil.
But if the republican Parties reunite then we'll achieve a United Ireland in no time.
We might all have diffirent policies for health ect. but we are all Republicans, if a member of Republican Shinn Féin came up to me, I'd embrace him like a brother and comrade, because that's what he is.

[Skin]

Respectfully, if you ask 100 people who the republican party is I doubt that 10 will pick FF.

But if you ask 100 people what a republican is, most of them willl answer that its someone who supports using force to achieve a united Ireland/supports the IRA campaign. They won't answer that its someone who supports the socialist ideals of 1798, as expressed in the 1916 Proclamation, and who therefore views national unity as the only way of achieveing social equality and fairness.

I agree with you (for once) but whose fault is that? Some will say it is Sinn Fein and the IRA's fault. But realistically the term republican had practically been dropped from the FF and FG radar for decades now. It is only in the last year or so that Sinn Fein is now being referred to as the 'Provisional movement' by their opponents as before they were commonly referred to as the 'republican movement'. This is an attempt, as McDowell said recently, to reclaim the title of republicanism. This is an admission that they let it go, they abandoned their republican ideology. They thought it was old hat, a thing of the past and no-one was interested in it. The revival of Irish Republicanism in recent years has benefitted Sinn Fein most as they were the only ones who kept the ideology of Irish Republicanism to the fore of their objectives. The major parties, so inept at responding to the crisis in the North completey shied away from the term 'republican' in the 70's and 80's. Censorship, internment, special criminal courts were the order of the day. Instead of behaving like true republicans and try to resolve the differences in our communities they further alienated (as admittedly did the IRA, UVF, RUC etc but everyone knows this) both communities in the North by their oppresive policies.
Dialogue is the way forward, dialogue has been proven to be the way forward. Who fears to talk?

[Skin]

Respectfully, if you ask 100 people who the republican party is I doubt that 10 will pick FF.

But if you ask 100 people what a republican is, most of them willl answer that its someone who supports using force to achieve a united Ireland/supports the IRA campaign. They won't answer that its someone who supports the socialist ideals of 1798, as expressed in the 1916 Proclamation, and who therefore views national unity as the only way of achieveing social equality and fairness.

Just because someone says they are a republican does not mean that they are. George Bush says he is a republican, but certainly not in the European sense.

Someone who hates the Brits, unionists and is opposed to the brotherhood of European nations is not a true republican in the vision of Wolfe Tone. As a result, most shinners might call themselves republicans but are actually extreme nationalists.

First of all you should learn what the term republican actually means. Being a republican means you believe in a form of governance in which the power of the state is vested in the people. It basically means people power. Sinn Fein do not hate the Brits, unionists or are opposed to the 'brotherhood of European nations' (admittedly I'm not sure where you're coming from here). Sinn Fein are opposed to the involvement of British Government, and its military, in Irish affairs. It is opposed to the partition of Ireland. It is opposed to the unionist preferance of a monarchy. It is supportive of the EU but not in form it is shaping out to be i.e a new world superpower. All it asks is that its political mandate be treated like everyone else's in a political forum.