SF & The Death Penalty

[fatcat]

[quote=Marcus Garvey][quote=fatcat][quote="Marcus Garvey":1gnbh68h]

The fact remains that while PIRA were committing TORTURE and carrying out THE DEATH PENALTY Sinn Feins policy on these issues were very different outside of the Provos acts. Do as I say Not as I do comes to mind. What evidence did they use to 'convict' their victims, quite often tittle tattle I believe. I see you use the word 'alleged' fatcat, These people were 'alleged' guilty and recieved no fair hearing. Remember many of their prey were not even informers, They crossed certain people or stood up to them and that was enough. If SF openly supported The Death Penalty as a whole at that time that would be a different matter but they didn't They turned a blind eye to it on their doorstep and thats why they are hypocrites.
Hypothetically speaking if I was in their position I don't know what I would do but if I was in SF and was sympathetic to the torture and executions that my Military wing was carrying out I wouldn't state in the next breath that I was opposed torture and the death penalty.

I used the word 'alleged' as I was quoting your original statement which contains the word 'alleged'. I have copied your original statement for you on numerous occassions, I have even bolded it for you, but still you don't seem to understand its content. Your making this too easy .
From your statement above it is clear that you do not wish to discuss the apparent contradiction between supporting armed struggle and opposing the death penalty. You just want to have a go at Sinn Féin - fair enough, but this is a discussion site. I see you continue to ignore the fact that the 'nutting squad' (Freddie Scapaticci) was a member of the British forces and therefore the torture and executions carried out by Freddie were the work of the British State. When will we expect an apology?

Its you that dosen't seem to understand, I made it clear that setting aside PIRA's armed campagne Sinn Fein were saying they opposed Capital Punishment and human rights breaches whilst endorsing PIRA's Kangaroo Court System were they brutally tortured their victims before executing them on the premise that these people were alleged informers or anyone else that crossed them....simple. This is a completely different scenario compared to SF's support for an armed campagne and human rights issues. Freddie Scapaticci was a signed up and well respected member of PIRA, For whatever reason (money, threat of imprisonment or whatever) he decided to become an agent. Your argument that because of this all the actions carried out by TNS was therefore the work of the British State is a convienent get out clause to wash their hands of their henious acts. Are you seriously claiming that British Spooks were running an internal (and in PIRA's mind) an integeral part of PIRA. In fact it is known that their were high level Republicans on the British payrole for years, Maybe The Brits were actually running the whole Republican movement, maybe this was a rouse to actually withdraw through the back door. Regardless what you claim the fact still remains that PIRA members (or was this unit soley comprised of Brits?) carried out torture and executions with SFs blessing. Whether Scap was targeting specific people on behalf of British Spooks (which I believe there is no evidence of) dosen't change anything and my original question which you have still not answered is totally relevent.

1. Your original question is poorly constructed and does not make sense, as you have already acknowledged. I have asked you to edit it so that it actually means what you want it to mean.
2. I have tried to answer your non-sentence question.

by fatcat Yesterday, 4:08 pm

I hope that Sinn Féin would not condemn the IRA for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables. These actions were carried out in a different era and you cannot divorce the absence of an accepted policing service and justice system from the arguement.
Everyone accepts that there was a war situation and the issue of a partial policing and justice system cannot be ignored. Internal discipline of IRA informers is the business of the IRA and any volunteer is aware of the outcome of turning informer.
Also the actions of the 'nutting squad' headed and directed by Freddie Scappatici were being directed by the British State. Will Gordon Brown condemn the British State for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables?

3. I am not claiming that the British were running any part of the PIRA. As I have already stated I don't know who the PIRA are. Do you mean the IRA?
4. Campagne - is that a region of France?

1/ My original question makes perfect sense, It's you that can't understand it
2/I'll rephrase that, You have only partially answered my question, whether or not there was a 'partial policing and justice system' has damn all to with it, there is a moral question at stake. Did PIRA hold the right to Torture and execute people? How can SF talk about human rights while their comrades in arms are burning lighters under peoples noses or electrocuting them and worse. Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'
3/Another sidestep, You obviously know who PIRA are, Its a term used by practically everybody Republicans alike, its the name that stuck with them throughout the conflict, theres no denying that fact, Whether the word 'Provisional' is rightly or wrongly used is another debate entirely but PIRA is the name most commonly used by most people so don't be so anal about it.
4/Oh dear a typo, I'm really sorry I meant campaign, now do you understand? Champagne is the Region in France.
5/This is a complete waste of time. Like I thought, there is no rational in a Shinner.[/quote:1gnbh68h]

1. Your original pre-amble/question does not make sense.

Marcus Garvey wrote:
The part you highlighted makes it sound like I said Sinn Fein were murderers (even though undoubtably many of their members were) Read the sentence properly and you will see that I was talking about PIRA.
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables? (In this context the word 'they' means PIRA)

Bring your question to an English teacher. In this context 'they' areSinn Féin. You may have meant it to mean PIRA but it doesn't. A simple edit would clarify they matter as previously pointed out
2.

Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'

Agreed, not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants. However, your opening question

Marcus Garvey wrote:
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables?

asks the respondent to put aside 'all the so called combatants and innocents' (I bolded this bit to make it easy for you). So if we put aside the combatants, innocents, PIRA [sic] or informants the only people we have left in your question are the undesirables. Since everybody else is covered, I assume undesirables refers to hoods/criminals. I believe that the hoods/criminals fit into the very real problem of partial policing which I have already addressed.
3. Anyone who knows the history of the IRA knows that the Provisional name was very a short period in the early 70s. Provisional means temporary - buy a dictionary. Provisional is a term used by sticks, stoops and micro groups.
4. Campagne once is a typo. Campagne twice is someone who has difficulty spelling. Not a crime, but nice to pick up smart-asses on.
5. When do the schools go back?[/quote:1gnbh68h]
Fatcat, Practically all your posts are more about 'Nitpicking' than the actual question. I still stand by my grammar however after reading it again it may be more correct to replace the comma with a full stop after death penalty. I know what 'Provisional' means thank you, It is also a term used by a great deal more people than you say including supporters, Have you ever seen PIRA painted on walls etc? I know I have and more than just a few times in many places including Crossmaglen, Did nobody tell these people that PIRA no longer existed? It seems to me that your the resident smart-ass around here.[/quote:1gnbh68h]

You have now acknowledged two grammatical mistakes in your opening question. Why not use the edit facility and correct it. While I agree I have seen PIRA on walls (although not in Crossmaglen) I know of no member of the the IRA or Sinn Féin that refers to the IRA as the PIRA. Smart-ass I may be but obviously a lot smarter than you. I won't allow trolls like yourself to spout your unsubstantiated lies without challenging them - loyalist bonfire thread springs to mind!

[Marcus Garvey]

[quote=fatcat][quote=Marcus Garvey][quote=fatcat]

The fact remains that while PIRA were committing TORTURE and carrying out THE DEATH PENALTY Sinn Feins policy on these issues were very different outside of the Provos acts. Do as I say Not as I do comes to mind. What evidence did they use to 'convict' their victims, quite often tittle tattle I believe. I see you use the word 'alleged' fatcat, These people were 'alleged' guilty and recieved no fair hearing. Remember many of their prey were not even informers, They crossed certain people or stood up to them and that was enough. If SF openly supported The Death Penalty as a whole at that time that would be a different matter but they didn't They turned a blind eye to it on their doorstep and thats why they are hypocrites.
Hypothetically speaking if I was in their position I don't know what I would do but if I was in SF and was sympathetic to the torture and executions that my Military wing was carrying out I wouldn't state in the next breath that I was opposed torture and the death penalty.

I used the word 'alleged' as I was quoting your original statement which contains the word 'alleged'. I have copied your original statement for you on numerous occassions, I have even bolded it for you, but still you don't seem to understand its content. Your making this too easy .
From your statement above it is clear that you do not wish to discuss the apparent contradiction between supporting armed struggle and opposing the death penalty. You just want to have a go at Sinn Féin - fair enough, but this is a discussion site. I see you continue to ignore the fact that the 'nutting squad' (Freddie Scapaticci) was a member of the British forces and therefore the torture and executions carried out by Freddie were the work of the British State. When will we expect an apology?

Its you that dosen't seem to understand, I made it clear that setting aside PIRA's armed campagne Sinn Fein were saying they opposed Capital Punishment and human rights breaches whilst endorsing PIRA's Kangaroo Court System were they brutally tortured their victims before executing them on the premise that these people were alleged informers or anyone else that crossed them....simple. This is a completely different scenario compared to SF's support for an armed campagne and human rights issues. Freddie Scapaticci was a signed up and well respected member of PIRA, For whatever reason (money, threat of imprisonment or whatever) he decided to become an agent. Your argument that because of this all the actions carried out by TNS was therefore the work of the British State is a convienent get out clause to wash their hands of their henious acts. Are you seriously claiming that British Spooks were running an internal (and in PIRA's mind) an integeral part of PIRA. In fact it is known that their were high level Republicans on the British payrole for years, Maybe The Brits were actually running the whole Republican movement, maybe this was a rouse to actually withdraw through the back door. Regardless what you claim the fact still remains that PIRA members (or was this unit soley comprised of Brits?) carried out torture and executions with SFs blessing. Whether Scap was targeting specific people on behalf of British Spooks (which I believe there is no evidence of) dosen't change anything and my original question which you have still not answered is totally relevent.

1. Your original question is poorly constructed and does not make sense, as you have already acknowledged. I have asked you to edit it so that it actually means what you want it to mean.
2. I have tried to answer your non-sentence question.

by fatcat Yesterday, 4:08 pm

I hope that Sinn Féin would not condemn the IRA for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables. These actions were carried out in a different era and you cannot divorce the absence of an accepted policing service and justice system from the arguement.
Everyone accepts that there was a war situation and the issue of a partial policing and justice system cannot be ignored. Internal discipline of IRA informers is the business of the IRA and any volunteer is aware of the outcome of turning informer.
Also the actions of the 'nutting squad' headed and directed by Freddie Scappatici were being directed by the British State. Will Gordon Brown condemn the British State for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables?

3. I am not claiming that the British were running any part of the PIRA. As I have already stated I don't know who the PIRA are. Do you mean the IRA?
4. Campagne - is that a region of France?

1/ My original question makes perfect sense, It's you that can't understand it
2/I'll rephrase that, You have only partially answered my question, whether or not there was a 'partial policing and justice system' has damn all to with it, there is a moral question at stake. Did PIRA hold the right to Torture and execute people? How can SF talk about human rights while their comrades in arms are burning lighters under peoples noses or electrocuting them and worse. Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'
3/Another sidestep, You obviously know who PIRA are, Its a term used by practically everybody Republicans alike, its the name that stuck with them throughout the conflict, theres no denying that fact, Whether the word 'Provisional' is rightly or wrongly used is another debate entirely but PIRA is the name most commonly used by most people so don't be so anal about it.
4/Oh dear a typo, I'm really sorry I meant campaign, now do you understand? Champagne is the Region in France.
5/This is a complete waste of time. Like I thought, there is no rational in a Shinner.

1. Your original pre-amble/question does not make sense.

Marcus Garvey wrote:
The part you highlighted makes it sound like I said Sinn Fein were murderers (even though undoubtably many of their members were) Read the sentence properly and you will see that I was talking about PIRA.
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables? (In this context the word 'they' means PIRA)

Bring your question to an English teacher. In this context 'they' areSinn Féin. You may have meant it to mean PIRA but it doesn't. A simple edit would clarify they matter as previously pointed out
2.

Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'

Agreed, not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants. However, your opening question

Marcus Garvey wrote:
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables?

asks the respondent to put aside 'all the so called combatants and innocents' (I bolded this bit to make it easy for you). So if we put aside the combatants, innocents, PIRA [sic] or informants the only people we have left in your question are the undesirables. Since everybody else is covered, I assume undesirables refers to hoods/criminals. I believe that the hoods/criminals fit into the very real problem of partial policing which I have already addressed.
3. Anyone who knows the history of the IRA knows that the Provisional name was very a short period in the early 70s. Provisional means temporary - buy a dictionary. Provisional is a term used by sticks, stoops and micro groups.
4. Campagne once is a typo. Campagne twice is someone who has difficulty spelling. Not a crime, but nice to pick up smart-asses on.
5. When do the schools go back?[/quote:28bs1as7]
Fatcat, Practically all your posts are more about 'Nitpicking' than the actual question. I still stand by my grammar however after reading it again it may be more correct to replace the comma with a full stop after death penalty. I know what 'Provisional' means thank you, It is also a term used by a great deal more people than you say including supporters, Have you ever seen PIRA painted on walls etc? I know I have and more than just a few times in many places including Crossmaglen, Did nobody tell these people that PIRA no longer existed? It seems to me that your the resident smart-ass around here.[/quote:28bs1as7]

You have now acknowledged two grammatical mistakes in your opening question. Why not use the edit facility and correct it. While I agree I have seen PIRA on walls (although not in Crossmaglen) I know of no member of the the IRA or Sinn Féin that refers to the IRA as the PIRA. Smart-ass I may be but obviously a lot smarter than you. I won't allow trolls like yourself to spout your unsubstantiated lies without challenging them - loyalist bonfire thread springs to mind! [/quote:28bs1as7]
Talking of 'lies' Sinn Fein wrote the book on them, Have you ever challenged them? Presumably not as your still able to type.

[blinding]

Ah sure the brits/loyalists/west brits never told a lie in their life begorrah you think we would believe any old tac.

[fatcat]

[quote=Marcus Garvey][quote=fatcat][quote="Marcus Garvey":1ow0q2r9][quote=fatcat]

The fact remains that while PIRA were committing TORTURE and carrying out THE DEATH PENALTY Sinn Feins policy on these issues were very different outside of the Provos acts. Do as I say Not as I do comes to mind. What evidence did they use to 'convict' their victims, quite often tittle tattle I believe. I see you use the word 'alleged' fatcat, These people were 'alleged' guilty and recieved no fair hearing. Remember many of their prey were not even informers, They crossed certain people or stood up to them and that was enough. If SF openly supported The Death Penalty as a whole at that time that would be a different matter but they didn't They turned a blind eye to it on their doorstep and thats why they are hypocrites.
Hypothetically speaking if I was in their position I don't know what I would do but if I was in SF and was sympathetic to the torture and executions that my Military wing was carrying out I wouldn't state in the next breath that I was opposed torture and the death penalty.

I used the word 'alleged' as I was quoting your original statement which contains the word 'alleged'. I have copied your original statement for you on numerous occassions, I have even bolded it for you, but still you don't seem to understand its content. Your making this too easy .
From your statement above it is clear that you do not wish to discuss the apparent contradiction between supporting armed struggle and opposing the death penalty. You just want to have a go at Sinn Féin - fair enough, but this is a discussion site. I see you continue to ignore the fact that the 'nutting squad' (Freddie Scapaticci) was a member of the British forces and therefore the torture and executions carried out by Freddie were the work of the British State. When will we expect an apology?

Its you that dosen't seem to understand, I made it clear that setting aside PIRA's armed campagne Sinn Fein were saying they opposed Capital Punishment and human rights breaches whilst endorsing PIRA's Kangaroo Court System were they brutally tortured their victims before executing them on the premise that these people were alleged informers or anyone else that crossed them....simple. This is a completely different scenario compared to SF's support for an armed campagne and human rights issues. Freddie Scapaticci was a signed up and well respected member of PIRA, For whatever reason (money, threat of imprisonment or whatever) he decided to become an agent. Your argument that because of this all the actions carried out by TNS was therefore the work of the British State is a convienent get out clause to wash their hands of their henious acts. Are you seriously claiming that British Spooks were running an internal (and in PIRA's mind) an integeral part of PIRA. In fact it is known that their were high level Republicans on the British payrole for years, Maybe The Brits were actually running the whole Republican movement, maybe this was a rouse to actually withdraw through the back door. Regardless what you claim the fact still remains that PIRA members (or was this unit soley comprised of Brits?) carried out torture and executions with SFs blessing. Whether Scap was targeting specific people on behalf of British Spooks (which I believe there is no evidence of) dosen't change anything and my original question which you have still not answered is totally relevent.

1. Your original question is poorly constructed and does not make sense, as you have already acknowledged. I have asked you to edit it so that it actually means what you want it to mean.
2. I have tried to answer your non-sentence question.

by fatcat Yesterday, 4:08 pm

I hope that Sinn Féin would not condemn the IRA for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables. These actions were carried out in a different era and you cannot divorce the absence of an accepted policing service and justice system from the arguement.
Everyone accepts that there was a war situation and the issue of a partial policing and justice system cannot be ignored. Internal discipline of IRA informers is the business of the IRA and any volunteer is aware of the outcome of turning informer.
Also the actions of the 'nutting squad' headed and directed by Freddie Scappatici were being directed by the British State. Will Gordon Brown condemn the British State for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables?

3. I am not claiming that the British were running any part of the PIRA. As I have already stated I don't know who the PIRA are. Do you mean the IRA?
4. Campagne - is that a region of France?

1/ My original question makes perfect sense, It's you that can't understand it
2/I'll rephrase that, You have only partially answered my question, whether or not there was a 'partial policing and justice system' has damn all to with it, there is a moral question at stake. Did PIRA hold the right to Torture and execute people? How can SF talk about human rights while their comrades in arms are burning lighters under peoples noses or electrocuting them and worse. Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'
3/Another sidestep, You obviously know who PIRA are, Its a term used by practically everybody Republicans alike, its the name that stuck with them throughout the conflict, theres no denying that fact, Whether the word 'Provisional' is rightly or wrongly used is another debate entirely but PIRA is the name most commonly used by most people so don't be so anal about it.
4/Oh dear a typo, I'm really sorry I meant campaign, now do you understand? Champagne is the Region in France.
5/This is a complete waste of time. Like I thought, there is no rational in a Shinner.

1. Your original pre-amble/question does not make sense.

Marcus Garvey wrote:
The part you highlighted makes it sound like I said Sinn Fein were murderers (even though undoubtably many of their members were) Read the sentence properly and you will see that I was talking about PIRA.
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables? (In this context the word 'they' means PIRA)

Bring your question to an English teacher. In this context 'they' areSinn Féin. You may have meant it to mean PIRA but it doesn't. A simple edit would clarify they matter as previously pointed out
2.

Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'

Agreed, not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants. However, your opening question

Marcus Garvey wrote:
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables?

asks the respondent to put aside 'all the so called combatants and innocents' (I bolded this bit to make it easy for you). So if we put aside the combatants, innocents, PIRA [sic] or informants the only people we have left in your question are the undesirables. Since everybody else is covered, I assume undesirables refers to hoods/criminals. I believe that the hoods/criminals fit into the very real problem of partial policing which I have already addressed.
3. Anyone who knows the history of the IRA knows that the Provisional name was very a short period in the early 70s. Provisional means temporary - buy a dictionary. Provisional is a term used by sticks, stoops and micro groups.
4. Campagne once is a typo. Campagne twice is someone who has difficulty spelling. Not a crime, but nice to pick up smart-asses on.
5. When do the schools go back?[/quote:1ow0q2r9]
Fatcat, Practically all your posts are more about 'Nitpicking' than the actual question. I still stand by my grammar however after reading it again it may be more correct to replace the comma with a full stop after death penalty. I know what 'Provisional' means thank you, It is also a term used by a great deal more people than you say including supporters, Have you ever seen PIRA painted on walls etc? I know I have and more than just a few times in many places including Crossmaglen, Did nobody tell these people that PIRA no longer existed? It seems to me that your the resident smart-ass around here.[/quote:1ow0q2r9]

You have now acknowledged two grammatical mistakes in your opening question. Why not use the edit facility and correct it. While I agree I have seen PIRA on walls (although not in Crossmaglen) I know of no member of the the IRA or Sinn Féin that refers to the IRA as the PIRA. Smart-ass I may be but obviously a lot smarter than you. I won't allow trolls like yourself to spout your unsubstantiated lies without challenging them - loyalist bonfire thread springs to mind! [/quote:1ow0q2r9][/quote:1ow0q2r9]
Talking of 'lies' Sinn Fein wrote the book on them, Have you ever challenged them? Presumably not as your still able to type.[/quote]

When your argument has been torn to shreds, when your claims have been exposed as lies, when your previous post contradicts your current post and when you have been found out as a troll with little substance all you can come up with is this!
Now we know why the vast majority of people in West Belfast don't vote SDLP. :mrgreen:

[Marcus Garvey]

[quote=fatcat][quote=Marcus Garvey][quote=fatcat][quote="Marcus Garvey":2lleyxtd][quote=fatcat]

The fact remains that while PIRA were committing TORTURE and carrying out THE DEATH PENALTY Sinn Feins policy on these issues were very different outside of the Provos acts. Do as I say Not as I do comes to mind. What evidence did they use to 'convict' their victims, quite often tittle tattle I believe. I see you use the word 'alleged' fatcat, These people were 'alleged' guilty and recieved no fair hearing. Remember many of their prey were not even informers, They crossed certain people or stood up to them and that was enough. If SF openly supported The Death Penalty as a whole at that time that would be a different matter but they didn't They turned a blind eye to it on their doorstep and thats why they are hypocrites.
Hypothetically speaking if I was in their position I don't know what I would do but if I was in SF and was sympathetic to the torture and executions that my Military wing was carrying out I wouldn't state in the next breath that I was opposed torture and the death penalty.

I used the word 'alleged' as I was quoting your original statement which contains the word 'alleged'. I have copied your original statement for you on numerous occassions, I have even bolded it for you, but still you don't seem to understand its content. Your making this too easy .
From your statement above it is clear that you do not wish to discuss the apparent contradiction between supporting armed struggle and opposing the death penalty. You just want to have a go at Sinn Féin - fair enough, but this is a discussion site. I see you continue to ignore the fact that the 'nutting squad' (Freddie Scapaticci) was a member of the British forces and therefore the torture and executions carried out by Freddie were the work of the British State. When will we expect an apology?

Its you that dosen't seem to understand, I made it clear that setting aside PIRA's armed campagne Sinn Fein were saying they opposed Capital Punishment and human rights breaches whilst endorsing PIRA's Kangaroo Court System were they brutally tortured their victims before executing them on the premise that these people were alleged informers or anyone else that crossed them....simple. This is a completely different scenario compared to SF's support for an armed campagne and human rights issues. Freddie Scapaticci was a signed up and well respected member of PIRA, For whatever reason (money, threat of imprisonment or whatever) he decided to become an agent. Your argument that because of this all the actions carried out by TNS was therefore the work of the British State is a convienent get out clause to wash their hands of their henious acts. Are you seriously claiming that British Spooks were running an internal (and in PIRA's mind) an integeral part of PIRA. In fact it is known that their were high level Republicans on the British payrole for years, Maybe The Brits were actually running the whole Republican movement, maybe this was a rouse to actually withdraw through the back door. Regardless what you claim the fact still remains that PIRA members (or was this unit soley comprised of Brits?) carried out torture and executions with SFs blessing. Whether Scap was targeting specific people on behalf of British Spooks (which I believe there is no evidence of) dosen't change anything and my original question which you have still not answered is totally relevent.

1. Your original question is poorly constructed and does not make sense, as you have already acknowledged. I have asked you to edit it so that it actually means what you want it to mean.
2. I have tried to answer your non-sentence question.

by fatcat Yesterday, 4:08 pm

I hope that Sinn Féin would not condemn the IRA for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables. These actions were carried out in a different era and you cannot divorce the absence of an accepted policing service and justice system from the arguement.
Everyone accepts that there was a war situation and the issue of a partial policing and justice system cannot be ignored. Internal discipline of IRA informers is the business of the IRA and any volunteer is aware of the outcome of turning informer.
Also the actions of the 'nutting squad' headed and directed by Freddie Scappatici were being directed by the British State. Will Gordon Brown condemn the British State for the execution of alleged informers and undesireables?

3. I am not claiming that the British were running any part of the PIRA. As I have already stated I don't know who the PIRA are. Do you mean the IRA?
4. Campagne - is that a region of France?

1/ My original question makes perfect sense, It's you that can't understand it
2/I'll rephrase that, You have only partially answered my question, whether or not there was a 'partial policing and justice system' has damn all to with it, there is a moral question at stake. Did PIRA hold the right to Torture and execute people? How can SF talk about human rights while their comrades in arms are burning lighters under peoples noses or electrocuting them and worse. Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'
3/Another sidestep, You obviously know who PIRA are, Its a term used by practically everybody Republicans alike, its the name that stuck with them throughout the conflict, theres no denying that fact, Whether the word 'Provisional' is rightly or wrongly used is another debate entirely but PIRA is the name most commonly used by most people so don't be so anal about it.
4/Oh dear a typo, I'm really sorry I meant campaign, now do you understand? Champagne is the Region in France.
5/This is a complete waste of time. Like I thought, there is no rational in a Shinner.

1. Your original pre-amble/question does not make sense.

Marcus Garvey wrote:
The part you highlighted makes it sound like I said Sinn Fein were murderers (even though undoubtably many of their members were) Read the sentence properly and you will see that I was talking about PIRA.
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables? (In this context the word 'they' means PIRA)

Bring your question to an English teacher. In this context 'they' areSinn Féin. You may have meant it to mean PIRA but it doesn't. A simple edit would clarify they matter as previously pointed out
2.

Not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants so you can hardly call it 'internal discipline'

Agreed, not all those that were tortured and executed were members of PIRA or informants. However, your opening question

Marcus Garvey wrote:
Sinn Fein have made it known for years that they oppose The Death Penalty, Putting aside all the so called combatants and innocents they murdered over the years will Sinn Fein publicly condemn The Kangaroo Courts set up by PIRA and the subsequent torture and 'execution' of alleged informers and undesirables?

asks the respondent to put aside 'all the so called combatants and innocents' (I bolded this bit to make it easy for you). So if we put aside the combatants, innocents, PIRA [sic] or informants the only people we have left in your question are the undesirables. Since everybody else is covered, I assume undesirables refers to hoods/criminals. I believe that the hoods/criminals fit into the very real problem of partial policing which I have already addressed.
3. Anyone who knows the history of the IRA knows that the Provisional name was very a short period in the early 70s. Provisional means temporary - buy a dictionary. Provisional is a term used by sticks, stoops and micro groups.
4. Campagne once is a typo. Campagne twice is someone who has difficulty spelling. Not a crime, but nice to pick up smart-asses on.
5. When do the schools go back?[/quote:2lleyxtd]
Fatcat, Practically all your posts are more about 'Nitpicking' than the actual question. I still stand by my grammar however after reading it again it may be more correct to replace the comma with a full stop after death penalty. I know what 'Provisional' means thank you, It is also a term used by a great deal more people than you say including supporters, Have you ever seen PIRA painted on walls etc? I know I have and more than just a few times in many places including Crossmaglen, Did nobody tell these people that PIRA no longer existed? It seems to me that your the resident smart-ass around here.[/quote:2lleyxtd]

You have now acknowledged two grammatical mistakes in your opening question. Why not use the edit facility and correct it. While I agree I have seen PIRA on walls (although not in Crossmaglen) I know of no member of the the IRA or Sinn Féin that refers to the IRA as the PIRA. Smart-ass I may be but obviously a lot smarter than you. I won't allow trolls like yourself to spout your unsubstantiated lies without challenging them - loyalist bonfire thread springs to mind! [/quote:2lleyxtd][/quote:2lleyxtd]
Talking of 'lies' Sinn Fein wrote the book on them, Have you ever challenged them? Presumably not as your still able to type.[/quote]

When your argument has been torn to shreds, when your claims have been exposed as lies, when your previous post contradicts your current post and when you have been found out as a troll with little substance all you can come up with is this!
Now we know why the vast majority of people in West Belfast don't vote SDLP. :mrgreen:[/quote:2lleyxtd]
Nobody has torn to shreds any argument I made here or exposed any lies that you say I made. Shinners are never comfortable when confronted so they resort to changing or at least clouding the subject and name calling etc. This is a Sinn Fein section to discuss all things SF right? SF oppose Torture and The Death Penality....well only when it's not the ira. (I dropped the p just for you fatcat since you find it hard to understand who I mean) Is that a lie?