Michael Collins

[rockofcashel]

Collins is the man who took British guns and used them to kill Irish people who just wanted to , go against the people’s will as the boys in 1916 did, and continue to fight for the Republic. Supporters of SF should hate Collins and call him a traitor, which they did until the film confused them all.

why should we hate him Rocky ? So that it can make FG'ers feel better that they have some sort of fetish in idolising him, despite the fact that even the briefest look at the mans life and his place in Irish history would indicate that he most likely would have nothing to do with FG

Can you imagine Micheal Collins take on Brian Hayes ? Or John Bruton ? or Gay Mitchell

[agora]

Collins is the man who took British guns and used them to kill Irish people who just wanted to , go against the people’s will as the boys in 1916 did, and continue to fight for the Republic. Supporters of SF should hate Collins and call him a traitor, which they did until the film confused them all.

why should we hate him Rocky ? So that it can make FG'ers feel better that they have some sort of fetish in idolising him, despite the fact that even the briefest look at the mans life and his place in Irish history would indicate that he most likely would have nothing to do with FG

Can you imagine Micheal Collins take on Brian Hayes ? Or John Bruton ? or Gay Mitchell

In fairness though, while I'm sure Collins would not have been happy with the way CnaG/FG went after his murder, it's hard to imagine him as a member of FF or SF either. If Collins had survived the Civil War he would have either taken CnaG in a different direction (the blueshirts and FG might not have arisen) or he would have become an independent figure, probably becoming more marginalised as Cosgrave, Dev and others got on with the job of messing up the country.

[Rocky]

Collins is the man who took British guns and used them to kill Irish people who just wanted to , go against the people’s will as the boys in 1916 did, and continue to fight for the Republic. Supporters of SF should hate Collins and call him a traitor, which they did until the film confused them all.

why should we hate him Rocky ? So that it can make FG'ers feel better that they have some sort of fetish in idolising him, despite the fact that even the briefest look at the mans life and his place in Irish history would indicate that he most likely would have nothing to do with FG

Can you imagine Micheal Collins take on Brian Hayes ? Or John Bruton ? or Gay Mitchell

Why not? He was good friends with Griffith and William T. Cosgrave and I doubt you consider them Republicans either.

Well I think I gave a good enough reason in my first post for Shinners to hate Collins, if you look at their attitudes concerning the troubles and the Civil War. How can you support a man Rock who used British guns to kill Irish men who were fighting for something that I'm sure you support?

[JCSkinner]

I was talking to a guy last night who claimed he voted SF (even though he is scared by our economic policies), he was very drunk, so talking to him about politics was risky anyway, but he really drove me daft when talking about Michael Collins. He was on about how republicans were bastards to kill Collins, he was for Ireland and all that. The same guy said he accepted my point when I said Michael collins was on the Free State army so Anti-Treatyites were naturally going to try to shoot him during a civil war. Recently a guy in Belfast said, when he found out I was from West Cork, "Ye Bawstards shot Michael Collins" I can only assume he was anti-treaty himself (as was your man last night) so I found his attitude amusing. Do any other shinners find that some republican people are totally all over the place on Michael Collins. If you respect him fair enough, it's surprising how many Shinners are big into him, but don't condemn the side you would have supported for killing someone on the other side. The man who (albeit reluctantly) ordered the shelling of the four courts which started the war.

It is due to SF's position on Collins, as well as their equally despicable position on the killing of other Irish people over the years, that they will never EVER get my vote or those of many other people. And yes, I do consider myself a Republican, but one who respects the mandate of my neighbours and the right of all to live in peace.

[blue33]

Collins and his men were no angels..........a bullet in the head for informers, shot off duty RIC men, and plenty of civilians too. But he is the hero of FG still.

He's no hero of mine, the only positive thing i can say is that he had begun to reform his ways by the end.

[West Cork and proud]

Collins and his men were no angels..........a bullet in the head for informers, shot off duty RIC men, and plenty of civilians too. But he is the hero of FG still.

He's no hero of mine, the only positive thing i can say is that he had begun to reform his ways by the end.

Thank God for Blue33 is that the kind of reform that includes sending arms North and armed men in the middle of the civil war.

I respect Collins and from what I have heard first hand from people of that era who knew him, that a United Ireland was his top priority.

To be honest the man is dead and know one really knows the path he would have taken if he remained alive.

[rockofcashel]

Collins is the man who took British guns and used them to kill Irish people who just wanted to , go against the people’s will as the boys in 1916 did, and continue to fight for the Republic. Supporters of SF should hate Collins and call him a traitor, which they did until the film confused them all.

why should we hate him Rocky ? So that it can make FG'ers feel better that they have some sort of fetish in idolising him, despite the fact that even the briefest look at the mans life and his place in Irish history would indicate that he most likely would have nothing to do with FG

Can you imagine Micheal Collins take on Brian Hayes ? Or John Bruton ? or Gay Mitchell

Why not? He was good friends with Griffith and William T. Cosgrave and I doubt you consider them Republicans either.

Well I think I gave a good enough reason in my first post for Shinners to hate Collins, if you look at their attitudes concerning the troubles and the Civil War. How can you support a man Rock who used British guns to kill Irish men who were fighting for something that I'm sure you support?

Cosgrave was a fine Republican in his day Rocky, your obviously a bit low on irish history. And contrary to widespread FF belief, I think he was actually the last Commanding Officer to surrender during the 1916 Rising, and not Dev. If memory serves me correct, didn't he and Mulcahy make a stand out in Bettystown in Meath, the only unit outside Dublin to fight in 1916

[edifice.]

Cosgrave was a fine Republican in his day Rocky, your obviously a bit low on irish history. And contrary to widespread FF belief, I think he was actually the last Commanding Officer to surrender during the 1916 Rising, and not Dev. If memory serves me correct, didn't he and Mulcahy make a stand out in Bettystown in Meath, the only unit outside Dublin to fight in 1916

Cosgrave also interpreted the Treaty from a British perspective.

[holdini]

"The people have no right to do wrong"

[edifice.]

"The people have no right to do wrong"

Whatever about the context of that, Cosgrave, O'Higgins and Blythe surrendered the Boundary Commission to the British cedeing all of the six counties to the Northern Parliament. Collins viewed the BC as a mechanism to reduce the size of the other partitioned entity to economic unviability but this had to be worked at. The other three capitulated, as one of their first actions under the treaty, declaring to the media 'today we have sown the seeds of peace'.