Community Led Socialism

[Coggy]

[quote=The Collective.][quote="Jolly Red Giant":1iny52ng]

And you are going to prove me wrong by being a significant electoral force in Ireland are you?

Not interested in being an electoral force - just a force for political, economic and social change - something FG have singularly failed to do since it's formation out of the blueshirts.[/quote:1iny52ng]


Hence not democracy. Hence I'll stand out against socialism. Hence being strongly anti-socialist isnt being pro-fascist.

FG were never able to achieve anything since the blueshirts, but they did afterwards.[/quote:1iny52ng]
Your version of "democracy" sadly good sir isn't democracy. Having the right to choose your ruler is not democracy but a sad version of a puppet government of the rich ruling classes .

It is clear from your focus on elections only you care not about policies or about the people your supposed to be representing but merely grasping power .

[Jolly Red Giant]

Like I said - big words - and you haven't a clue what they mean!!!

[Coggy]

[quote=The Collective.][quote="Jolly Red Giant":ac1u2fzi]I think you are displaying you political ignorance here sunshine - I suspect you haven't a clue what fascism is.

[quote="The Collective.":ac1u2fzi]I group socialists in the same group.[/quote]
Definitely displaying political ignorance here.

[quote=The Collective.]Accept Fascists are generally better organised.[/quote]
Yea - and they got the trains to run on time too.

[quote=The Collective.]Says the person that doesnt think the Dail is the best/fair way to get things done. As people said above, socialism isnt democracy.[/quote]
And delusional as well - he actually thinks the Dail is democratic!!!! [/quote:ac1u2fzi]


A dictatorshipn were laws; rights and wrongs are decided on on irrational impusle on what the person or group incharge think is right. Debate discouraged.

Hence like socialism.

Usually pro-militant.

Hence like socialism.

Pro-state control of economy and industry.

Hence like socialism.

Experiments with technocratic or national corrporational style of running organisations.

Hence more organised.[/quote:ac1u2fzi]

Please give up your false irrationalities about socialism and go look up the term .

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism#Common_ideas"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic ... mmon_ideas[/url]

i see no mention of dictatorships , do you ?

[Universal_001]

Do you think any attempt at socialist policies will inevitably end in dictatorship Collective? I think Venezuala is disproving that, they clearly know how to distinguish between the man and the programme, in fact I've never seen anyone even the Americans take such pride in their constitution they carry little mini books of it around with them.

[The Collective.]

" sadly good sir isn't democracy. Having the right to choose your ruler is not democracy but a sad version of a puppet government of the rich ruling classes .

It is clear from your focus on elections only you care not about policies or about the people your supposed to be representing but merely grasping power .

So you are a neo/classic-lib now? Pro-entreprenuer? Pro-business? You dont believe the state should intervien when businesses cross the line? I.E. Workers rights or the enivroment? So you are capitalist?

I voted for a party that represents me best when it comes to human rights issues. I voted for the party that represents me best when comes to methology of fixing solutions. I voted Fine Gael the only pro-intellectualism party, the PDs would come close if they actually stood for what they claim to believe.

[rockofcashel]

"The Working Class"

The multitude of individuals who sell their labour power (either hand or brain) for wages and do not own the means of production. Owning a few shares does not constitute owning the means of production - it merely means you were foolish enough to risk your money on a gamble (a bit like going to the bookies and putting money on SF to win 10 seats in the last election).

very simplistic JRG.. maybe I'm building up a substantial enough share so as to take them down from the inside.. you know, like a sleeper cell.. or a front.. like um.. People Before Profit

Why are you in Sinn Fein if its a party which claims to be socialist .

I'm in the Republican wing

[Universal_001]

"The Working Class"

The multitude of individuals who sell their labour power (either hand or brain) for wages and do not own the means of production. Owning a few shares does not constitute owning the means of production - it merely means you were foolish enough to risk your money on a gamble (a bit like going to the bookies and putting money on SF to win 10 seats in the last election).

very simplistic JRG.. maybe I'm building up a substantial enough share so as to take them down from the inside.. you know, like a sleeper cell.. or a front.. like um.. People Before Profit

Why are you in Sinn Fein if its a party which claims to be socialist .

I'm in the Republican wing

So you just wanna cut and paste the 6 counties onto the current Ireland?

[Thewarrior007]

An Estonians view on communism

Communism A Failure, Says Former Estonian PM

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-11-26/62339.html

whats the czechs views

Czechs Celebrate Fall of Communism
http://english.ntdtv.com/?c=210&a=730

[The Collective.]

Please give up your false irrationalities about socialism and go look up the term .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic ... mmon_ideas

i see no mention of dictatorships , do you ?

I dont like to use wikipedia to research on ideals. Although it generally gives the jist of what its about.

As I said before, socialism is a dictatorship pretend to be democracy. As your other red friend has pointed out, you your group isnt looking for the electorates approval. Thus strongly hinting a dictatorship. Like amny anti-democratic movements in Ireland; I.E. shell to sea campaign, anti-fa, anmesty international(not as bad as the others).


I did pick a few things from wiki.

Common ideas
Many types of socialism fit the above description, though many employ different methods for socializing the economy. Some common ideas are as follows:

"Economic planning: an economy that uses planning by elected representatives, geared for consumption rather than profit."

Dont believe that is sustainable. Need profit for to fund public sector.

"Nationalization: taking control of the means of production from the bourgeoise and giving it to the state is a common idea amongst groups that call themselves democratic socialists."

Not totatlly against that.

"The more libertarian strain (eg. the Socialist Party USA) advocates socialization/direct workers' ownership and control instead of state ownership. "

Depends, only on a freemarket model. Its been done before. I've worked for one, and I'm aware of others

"A state: most democratic socialists support parliamentary democracy, although libertarian socialists favor decentralized communes and other forms of non-statist social organization."

If I had a choice, I would prefere the parliamentary democracy, assuming I'm allowed vote, speak my mind and campaign for changing the system.

"Workplace democracy: the application of democracy to the workplace is naturally supported by those that call themselves democratic socialists."

Ever heard of the Fascist labour committee? Sounds like the same thing.

[Coggy]

Don't be so ignorant please .

Ill give you a nice old criteria for you to use form now on ok ?

If said country is claiming to be socialist but has a dictatorship in place . Said country is not socialist . From now on let that be 101 of judging real socialism from now on.

"Workplace democracy is the application of democracy in all its forms (including voting systems, debates, democratic structuring, due process, adversarial process, systems of appeal, and so on) to the workplace."

And thats a bad thing ?