All Sinn Féin needs to do to succeed is stop being a Republican Party!

[Murph]

And there was I thinking if was Fine Gael and Labour who were implementing the savage cuts -and it was those bold shinners doing it and leading them astray all along.

I always said it -as soon as the brits pulled out and handed over full fiscal control to the folks in the north -they would make a mess of the place. Cruimh is probably right -the people of W.Belfast are probably afraid not to vote SF and do so in such huge numbers just to despite the tory gov in London.

As for Black Lion being from the sunny south east - are you sure its not the dark north east that his banging away on his keyboard from?

[Didihno]

Mr Adams still has a few detractors, a few sour Unionists and a few dissidents, both which are part of the past and best left behind as the electorate on both sides informed them at the ballot box.

Part of the past, very interesting you should use that phrase.
It is precisely his past, and that of his peers in SF, that is in question and holding the party back IMO.
It is quite clear that the likes of Pearse Doherty are the future, people who were not involved in the 'troubles', people whose hearts and minds are in the right place (as is Adams) but whose slates are clean (as Adams isn't).
SF did well in the last election, that much is obvious, but they could have done better and from talking to my own peers (friends/family/colleagues) at the time, they for the most part despised FF/Green, didn't trust FG/Lab to be any different and really wanted another option. SF was that option but almost overwhelingly my peers were adamant that as long as 'scum' like Adams thought he could swan into town and think all was forgiven then they could fk off.
this was not just my opinion, but the opinion of most everyone I know, from the North Side of Dublin as it happens.
Until Gerry Adams generation realises their presence is not only an easy target because of their past, its also a block holding the parties future in the mud.

One final point on the Louth election, it was Louth.
Growing up all I ever heard about Louth was that it was a hotbed of ra heads.
I'm not suggesting the population is a balaclava wearing mob, but its laughable that some on here seem to trot out Gerry Adams' strong election showing in Louth as indicative of how he would fare country wide.

[Jacobite]

Didihno that's a pretty fair assessment I would say. The only point I would make in rebuttable is that the very fact Adams et al remain involved ensures that some older, traditional and more hard-line Republicans remain committed to Sinn Fein. If the party is 'sanitised' of the older members who have a history then alot of their core supporters would abandon the party.

In my opinion Sinn Fein from the mid 1980's onwards has always been about moving the party in the democratic direction whilst at the same attempting to retain the maximum amount of core supporters along the way. This has been achieved by convincing them that the path the 'leadership' has chose is the right one and by maintaining the same faces who have been involved throughout the struggle.

[turdsl]

Using offensive Language does not make an argument any stronger, It reminds me of the personal attacks on Brian Lenihan, saying more about the posters than the minister. Insulting the people of Louth because they voted in a particular is childish, Opponents of Mr Adams used to say if they put up an ass for S.F in W Belfast he would win.Not very charitable for poor Alex Attwood. They tell us Bertie was elected, Hitler was elected. There is a democratic system,lets respect it.If you are willing to blame the electorate people should have the courage to put their name on a ballot paper. People who say the likes of Adams and McGuinness are the past does not compare with the facts. This has been their best year ever at the ballot box.North and South, He trebled the number of his TDs and got candidates elected to the senate for the first time. Mr Adams canvassed around the country, In my own constituency Westmeath/ longford their candidate doubled their first preferences. We remember all the laughing there was when it become known that the former Chief of Staff was going to run. Mitchell was going to run him into the ground and disgrace the Provo, as we know it did not happen that way. despite all the adverse publicity.we all saw the army man confronting McGuinness in the shopping centre. However when the votes were counted McGuinness had increased the first preferences
here by another 1500 votes.which brought the increase in their first preferences this year to a 100,000
. I know the areas of East Galway and South Roscommon and when the results of local boxes were ma
de known, i was astonished to say that S.F got some votes was a big enough surprise. to say that the
former Chief of Staff of the IRA did so well was just astounding, beating the Fine Gael candidate 2 to 1 in 98%
of the boxes as we now know this was replicated across the country. As John Bowman said Adams has the
work done for major Gains at the next election, He has more credibility to his predictions than John Drennan or
anyone else from the Sunday Independent. Neither Mitchell or McGuinness went near winning the election, It was a terrible blow to Fine Gael who should have had it in the bag for the first time, However, they could live with been beaten by Michael D. Been beaten into fourth place behind the Northerner and former Chief of Staff
of the IRA was just about as big a humiliation for the major party of government as when the electorate decided
in 1932 to kick them out of office and give the job to Dev. In the return of votes last year the leadership of Adams and McGuinness have proved their success at the ballot box.

[Didihno]

Jacobite - I see that yeah, as with everything on this forum though its just a debate of opinions at the end of the day.
I can only base my opinions on what I feel in my heart. I think the 'hardliners' days are numbered. Their time has passed.
I feel I must stress that these discussions especially with Turdsl, that this election was the first time SF was getting my first pref ever.
I wanted and still of course want serious change in power in Ireland. The SF didn't bother to run anyone in my constituency really ticked me off.

Turdsl - good post fella, and as above I must stress that I'm pretty much pro SF and see the great gains they have made.
I too want to see them grow even more to a point where they can take control and hopefully, hopefully act on their promises and clean out the septic tank of Irish politics. They are pretty much the only people who'd I'd trust to do so.
As for the insulting language comment? What? Can you not tell that I was merely representing the candid opinions of my peers?
I dare say my group of people, all working class north dubs, would pretty much share the same opinion on these matters.
I'm also not trying to insult the good people of Louth, I'm just saying it like it is, the general consensus from where I grew up is that Louth was/is a stong RA support area. Thats just the way it was (possibly still is) seen.

[RepublicOfLuas]

Using offensive Language does not make an argument any stronger.

No, but it shows the passion behind the posters opposition/frustration. Nothing wrong with expression

[turdsl]

Jacobite - I see that yeah, as with everything on this forum though its just a debate of opinions at the end of the day.
I can only base my opinions on what I feel in my heart. I think the 'hardliners' days are numbered. Their time has passed.
I feel I must stress that these discussions especially with Turdsl, that this election was the first time SF was getting my first pref ever.
I wanted and still of course want serious change in power in Ireland. The SF didn't bother to run anyone in my constituency really ticked me off.

Turdsl - good post fella, and as above I must stress that I'm pretty much pro SF and see the great gains they have made.
I too want to see them grow even more to a point where they can take control and hopefully, hopefully act on their promises and clean out the septic tank of Irish politics. They are pretty much the only people who'd I'd trust to do so.
As for the insulting language comment? What? Can you not tell that I was merely representing the candid opinions of my peers?
I dare say my group of people, all working class north dubs, would pretty much share the same opinion on these matters.
I'm also not trying to insult the good people of Louth, I'm just saying it like it is, the general consensus from where I grew up is that Louth was/is a stong RA support area. Thats just the way it was (possibly still is) seen.

Please understand that i do not intend to be offensive in the least. To say that Louth is a hotbed for the IRA is a bit wild
Coming from the midlands I would not be able to judge,maybe they had their reason. The fact is the gave Adams a fantastic vote as a Sinn Fein candidate and leader. I have never yet given a first preference vote to Sinn Fein. I do not think i know anyone in Sinn Fein.I post just as an ordinary observer and try to stick with the facts, I believe Adams and McGuinness as hardliners are still needed
to lead,their vote is going the right way, Doherty and Mary Lou are doing fair enough but they have no experience yet,to lead a party as divisive as Sinn Fein North and South, the positions they hold are excellent to gain that experience. Adams move South can only be regarded as a massive success. Running McGuinness has also proved a success, as i said already i am astonished where he got votes,Nobody would have given Sinn Fein a vote in some of those boxes 10 years ago never mind someone who was supposed to be as hated as McGuinness.If Adams can bring his party to 15% at the next election he will have done his job well and will have to regarded as one of the most successful politicians in centuries, he stands a chance of attaining that if the election is not until 2015.however, the election may come much sooner, that may not help him achieve that goal.

[edwin]

Please understand that i do not intend to be offensive in the least. To say that Louth is a hotbed for the IRA is a bit wild
Coming from the midlands I would not be able to judge,maybe they had their reason. The fact is the gave Adams a fantastic vote as a Sinn Fein candidate and leader. I have never yet given a first preference vote to Sinn Fein. I do not think i know anyone in Sinn Fein.I post just as an ordinary observer and try to stick with the facts, I believe Adams and McGuinness as hardliners are still needed
to lead,their vote is going the right way, Doherty and Mary Lou are doing fair enough but they have no experience yet,to lead a party as divisive as Sinn Fein North and South, the positions they hold are excellent to gain that experience. Adams move South can only be regarded as a massive success. Running McGuinness has also proved a success, as i said already i am astonished where he got votes,Nobody would have given Sinn Fein a vote in some of those boxes 10 years ago never mind someone who was supposed to be as hated as McGuinness.If Adams can bring his party to 15% at the next election he will have done his job well and will have to regarded as one of the most successful politicians in centuries, he stands a chance of attaining that if the election is not until 2015.however, the election may come much sooner, that may not help him achieve that goal.

If you had told Sinn Fein's leadership in 2008 that FF were going lose 25% of the national vote and SF would pick up only 3% of it they would have been desperately disappointed. They are certainly at an all time high but we shouldn't forget the context.

[turdsl]

If you had told Sinn Fein's leadership in 2008 that FF were going lose 25% of the national vote and SF would pick up only 3% of it they would have been desperately disappointed. They are certainly at an all time high but we shouldn't forget the context.

I agree, but we should not forget the context people were going to the polls for. The country was banjaxed. Fianna Fail
had become unfit to hold high office, Fine Gael was the best hope for stable government, great chance of been on their own for the first time. If not Labour would fill the gap. Lets not forget the promises. Who would want Sinn Fein in Government
then. I doubt they wanted it themselves. They behaved very well to gain 10 seats. It was the best chance ever for Fine Gael on their own own. The electorate decided not to thrust them on their own, Labour was the big beneficiary.