Bobby Sands R.I.P.

[The Earl of Desmond]

Gulle - Ireland was not united and the Ard Ri never actually ruled Ireland. As I'm sure you know Gelic Ireland was ruled by lots of petty princes and some major ones. Brian Boru who was Ard Ri was merely the strongest of those for a time and the last Ard Ri was O'Conor who again was the strongest at the time and was probably the closet Ireland came to a united Kingdom. Saying Ireland was a single kingdom at the time the English arrived in 1169 is as wrong as claiming England was a single kingdom at the time - it wasn't until Henry Tudor became king that he set about consolidating England into one kingdom.

So it is plainly factually wrong to say England invaded some nirvana which was Ireland at the time. I get the principle the entire Ireland was ruled by Irish people but to say the English jsut came in took it over it also wrong. There seems to be a reluctant to debate the role of Irish people over 800 years in keeping the English here. How many risings were defeated thanks to Irish traitors. My ancestor Earls of Desmond and Kildare almost came close but again it was Irishmen who betrayed them just as it was with the Scots.

So a simplisitc claim that England is the cause of all bad things in Irish history is utterly wrong.

[outside looking in]

you'll have more luck talking to a wall.

RIP Bobby Sands.

[Ronanr]

it wasn't until Henry Tudor became king that he set about consolidating England into one kingdom.

What other independent kingdoms were there in England in the time of say, Henry II?

[Cael]

Gulle - Ireland was not united and the Ard Ri never actually ruled Ireland. As I'm sure you know Gelic Ireland was ruled by lots of petty princes and some major ones. Brian Boru who was Ard Ri was merely the strongest of those for a time and the last Ard Ri was O'Conor who again was the strongest at the time and was probably the closet Ireland came to a united Kingdom. Saying Ireland was a single kingdom at the time the English arrived in 1169 is as wrong as claiming England was a single kingdom at the time - it wasn't until Henry Tudor became king that he set about consolidating England into one kingdom.

So it is plainly factually wrong to say England invaded some nirvana which was Ireland at the time. I get the principle the entire Ireland was ruled by Irish people but to say the English jsut came in took it over it also wrong. There seems to be a reluctant to debate the role of Irish people over 800 years in keeping the English here. How many risings were defeated thanks to Irish traitors. My ancestor Earls of Desmond and Kildare almost came close but again it was Irishmen who betrayed them just as it was with the Scots.

So a simplisitc claim that England is the cause of all bad things in Irish history is utterly wrong.

How pathetic to be trying to associate yourself with a fake title from the enemies of our country.

[gulle]

eh well iv actually studied a bit of Medieval history and for lack of a better source, as im too lazy to copy out of my books Wikipedia has this to say on the matter
"In medieval times, the monarch (also known as the High King) reigned over the four provinces of Ireland, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster. These provinces too had their own king, and they were subject to the monarch, who resided at Tara"

this i believe would be similar to the american way of governance where each state has a govenor who is ultimately answerable to a higher power, so by your reckoning the USA is not a united country?

[The OD]

Gulle - Ireland was not united and the Ard Ri never actually ruled Ireland. As I'm sure you know Gelic Ireland was ruled by lots of petty princes and some major ones. Brian Boru who was Ard Ri was merely the strongest of those for a time and the last Ard Ri was O'Conor who again was the strongest at the time and was probably the closet Ireland came to a united Kingdom. Saying Ireland was a single kingdom at the time the English arrived in 1169 is as wrong as claiming England was a single kingdom at the time - it wasn't until Henry Tudor became king that he set about consolidating England into one kingdom.

So it is plainly factually wrong to say England invaded some nirvana which was Ireland at the time. I get the principle the entire Ireland was ruled by Irish people but to say the English jsut came in took it over it also wrong. There seems to be a reluctant to debate the role of Irish people over 800 years in keeping the English here. How many risings were defeated thanks to Irish traitors. My ancestor Earls of Desmond and Kildare almost came close but again it was Irishmen who betrayed them just as it was with the Scots.

So a simplisitc claim that England is the cause of all bad things in Irish history is utterly wrong.

How pathetic to be trying to associate yourself with a fake title from the enemies of our country.

The problem with strawmen, is that they burn or are blown over quite easily.

[Eddie Collins]

RIP the victims of Sands fellow criminals, victims who, unlike Sands, were not given the choice to live.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/65524.stm

[Cael]

Hopefully there will be a good turn out today at Sinn Féin's commemoration in Dublin, Ill be heading down there myself soon to pay my respects to Bobby Sands and all the twenty two Irish soldiers who gave their lives for Ireland on Hunger Strike, and to all those patriots who fought for Ireland's freedom over the long centuries. Ar deis Dé go raibh a n-anam dílis.

[The Earl of Desmond]

Wessex, Mercia, East Englia, Essex, Kent, Sussex then from about 860 I think until after the Battle of Hastings England was evoling into the England we now know under one sovereign. Just as in time it is likely the petty kingdoms and territories of Ireland wouldhave evolved into one Kingdom under the FitzGeralds

[Cael]

eh well iv actually studied a bit of Medieval history and for lack of a better source, as im too lazy to copy out of my books Wikipedia has this to say on the matter
"In medieval times, the monarch (also known as the High King) reigned over the four provinces of Ireland, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster. These provinces too had their own king, and they were subject to the monarch, who resided at Tara"

this i believe would be similar to the american way of governance where each state has a govenor who is ultimately answerable to a higher power, so by your reckoning the USA is not a united country?

Indeed, Teamhair has been the symbol of Ireland's sovereignty for over two thousand years. Its no wonder that the free staters want to vandalise it with a motorway.