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About LinkBacksListen, arguing against nationalism is like arguing against religion, with a lot of people there's no point. At best, you can hope they'll grow out of it.Originally Posted by disgruntledcitizen
Listen, arguing against nationalism is like arguing against religion, with a lot of people there's no point. At best, you can hope they'll grow out of it.
But you were not making an argument for the better good of others Disgruntled -you were making one that served your own selfish interests.
How can the partitioning of any country and its people be a possitive developed for the wider common good?
Be honest Disgruntled and at least be consistant and stick with you first line of argument and say it you dont want unity because (as wrong as you are) you feel it wouldnt benefit you as an indiviual.
Did Partition bring you or the generations before you any benefits? Did it ever bring us prosperity (real) ?
Did it bring us peace and stability?
Did you or anyone around you who live in the south ever lose a nights sleep when conflict was raging across the border?
Did you ever wonder (I know you didnt care) what it was like to be a Irish nationalist trapped in an orange apartheid state held together by the gun?
Did you ever consider that the unnatural division of this island which cannot really sustain two seperate economies - has got something to do with our present economic mess down here, and in part was connected to why we never grew up as a nation.
Perhaps Disgruntled, if you really want to remain a sefish me feiner -and want to view this issue in those terms - you might begin to think outside the box and really consider the pros and cons of a one-all-ireland economy!
Asleep are we?
I just can't see them outweighing the financial cost of subsidising the north, to be honest. But if you'd any empirical evidence to show me otherwise, I'd be more than happy to join the United Ireland cause.
Going by that sorry logic -we should sell off or give away most of our western counties as we are getting no return from them except Mayo, but we gave that away to Shell already.
Infact - gave it all away and lets just hold on to Dublin!
The folks on the dole are too costly and should be jetisoned. Lets just keep those who have jobs and confiscate the passports from everyone else and send them packing!
Instead of all you young liberals bleteing away about why you dont want a united Ireland, why not give us some good and well thought out reasons why, -not just the obvious me fein -selfish ones - if you can!
Well, no, you've to convince us, considering you're the one who's looking for a massive change, with huge social and financial implications, from the status quo.
But, if you insist, it doesn't seem to be beneficial to the Irish state, financially, to unite with Northern Ireland.
You're being silly now. Calm down.
The Irish State is - The People. The Irish People have always constituted those who inhabbited this Island -under different chieftains, kings- rulers -up until they were unaturally divided by a false border in 1921.
You keep bringing it back to economics -and while that is a vitally important aspect to it, you keep ignoring the moral and human injustice of why and how it all came about to begin with.
If a referendum was called tomorrow and a majority so called for unity -the British Gov and the EU would naturally be expected to play its part in a financial sttlement -(remember Germany 1990). Also I dont think I'd be exagerating to say the new all Ireland Republican would hav offers of inward investment from Irish American and other friendly nations from all over the world.
in the present world economic downturn -that might sound a bit wishful -but remember what it was like about 10 years ago!
That's all very wish washy. You seem to think we'll be flooded with aid and FDI. Germany, a massive economic powerhouse, is still subsidising the east, 20 years on. I'm sure most will understand if I don't support the biggest change, financially and socially, in the history of the state on the basis of some wishy washy optimism.
Yes, there was injustice when partition was forced upon the nation, I think most would recognise that, but I don't think that is reason enough to make these massive and as far as I can see unstabilising and very likely financially draining changes. Oh, and of course I keeo bringing back to finances, we're smashed at the moment, we can't afford to take on a basket case of an economy like the North.
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