Killian Forde confirms to Politics.ie that he has resigned from Sinn Fein

[MacCoise2]

This is fantastic news - I always felt Killian belonged in the broad Labour family, and I'm thrilled to hear he'll be joining Labour. Hopefully this will also encourage many of the other progressive SF members to look at making a political change.

Makes two Labour seats in Dublin North East a very real possibility also.

Get your own bleeding councillors! And as for "progressive" member sof Sf why would they move to the centre?

[cricket]

By any standards, going from 7 to 4 councillors in Dublin is a crisis.

I know quite a few SF members and supporters and they seem to break down as follows :
1. Those who supported " the lads " during the troubles and are a bit bewildered as to where they stand now so they just accept the leadership line on just about everything.
2. The FF lite, who, understandably, could not support FF but are not dissimilar to them. They are hard party workers though.
3. Hard lefters for whom the " troubles " were never an issue as they were not alive for most of it. They are almost natural Labour Party material but find their socialism doesn't sit easily with Labour's record in coalition governments. However, they must be wondering about the socialist track record of their party at Stormont .
4. The "we're agin everything " brigade who were in the party while " the lads " were at their most active and who now would be more comfortable with those who too are against everything and will never see power in any shape or form at any level, such as Joe Higgins, SP, PBP and all that crowd.

My observations are in relation to the South only, hardly know a handful of shinners in the North.
That kettle must be nearly boiled by now.

[alan1122]

put on the kettle.. were on our way

FFS !!! What about the unemployed and the pensioners who now have their waivers removed, And you creaming yerself over joining Gilmore and co.
Good man yerself.! good fuc%ing man

[TheHoney]

I wonder how Matt Carthy is taken the news, when cllr Minihan left he was distraught at the thoughts of been lied to. you'd think he'd be used to it at this stage. SF resignations that is.

poor old factual, none as blind those who refuse to see

[stretchneil]

FFS !!! What about the unemployed and the pensioners who now have their waivers removed, And you creaming yerself over joining Gilmore and co.
Good man yerself.! good fuc%ing man

This kind of nonsense does you no favours, and is more than adequately dealt with in Killian's statement:

The one item that all political parties were unhappy with was the partial removal of the bin waiver for those on low incomes. However this is not the function, responsibility or within the power of the Councillors to change. The power to set the fees and any waiver is the sole responsibility of the City Manager. This power was removed from Councillors and handed to the City Manager by a Fianna Fail minister.

[Podolski1.5]

By any standards, going from 7 to 4 councillors in Dublin is a crisis.

Actually it is from 10 to 4 because that's what they got in the 2004 local elections. Resignations and the 2009 locals brought them from 10 to 7, now they're at 4.

[stonethrower]

By any standards, going from 7 to 4 councillors in Dublin is a crisis.

I know quite a few SF members and supporters and they seem to break down as follows :
1. Those who supported " the lads " during the troubles and are a bit bewildered as to where they stand now so they just accept the leadership line on just about everything.
2. The FF lite, who, understandably, could not support FF but are not dissimilar to them. They are hard party workers though.
3. Hard lefters for whom the " troubles " were never an issue as they were not alive for most of it. They are almost natural Labour Party material but find their socialism doesn't sit easily with Labour's record in coalition governments. However, they must be wondering about the socialist track record of their party at Stormont .
4. The "we're agin everything " brigade who were in the party while " the lads " were at their most active and who now would be more comfortable with those who too are against everything and will never see power in any shape or form at any level, such as Joe Higgins, SP, PBP and all that crowd.

My observations are in relation to the South only, hardly know a handful of shinners in the North.
That kettle must be nearly boiled by now.

Firstly I don't want this to seen as a kick SF post, it is just interesting for me as a person who studies politics to observe how a party that the period 1998-2004 seemed to be on a roll and which was frightening the bejaysus out of FF and Labour and since then....despite not being in Government here has been on the slide...(And before someone reponds by saying vote has gone up....vote in core areas in the 2009 locals in Dublin city was down 7.5%, Monaghan down 3.5%, Donegal down only 0.5%, Waterford City down 4.5% and Galway City down 5.5%..acknowledge vote was up in Cork City and Kerry by 2.5%..but overall vote was down at a time when they should have been cleaning up given the anti Govt sentiment) by that's not to say they can't turn it around....but they need a major change of tack....and of course it is a lesson for all political parties....and of course even with a slight improvement they could still win 7 seats next time out....hold all 4 they have now and win 2 in Donegal and win back 1 in Dublin SW...

I agree with most of Crickets analysis, I know it refers to members/supporters....but it is also a good classification for their voters....the growth in their support in the period 1997-2004 was like the boom-founded on very temporary and precarious circumstances.

On top of what cricket says some additional points...

5. They were getting huge publicity in the period 1997-2004. Adams, McGuinness et al and of course the famous doughnut of SF reps around them were on the nightly news a few times a week. The success of the peace process was very much seen as important to people in the south....that has changed, north is seen as sorted......very rare to see them on the nightly news now...and of course Adams was exposed for being a one trick pony in the 2007 GE...and totally out of touch with politics here in the south...

6. Cricket mentions hard work...true SF reps, members, supporters did a lot of hard work on the ground...they managed to get people out to vote who would not necessarily have done so, they worked in areas the other parties had abandoned....but that takes time, money and great energy....in the period they had that influx of young, enthusiastic members, they had the air of the outsider and the whiff of sulphur and of course the US money....FF changed the law circa 2000-2001 so SF can no longer use money collected in the US here. Also many of the then young members are now in their 30's (like Killian Forde) settling down and when you have other commitments, not easy to be out campaigning every night of the week. The democratic centralism and of course the requirement that councillors give up some of their allowances must rankle...so you probably have councillors who feel they are required to work twice as hard as other councillors but get half the money. That has to explain some of the attrition in their local councillors in recent years. OK when you are 25 with no commitments, but when you are older and have commitments and in the current environment....must put pressure on reps. And of course same applies to members, many of them don't have the time and energy to be out working "the ground".

They have a dilemma, they could go further to the left and pick up votes in the Dublin and other cities but that will just alienate their voters in Kerry, Monaghan, Donegal etc...or ditch the left wing/equality stuff and go after the soft FFers.....but that will alienate left wing vote in urban areas.

They definitely need a new direction and new strategy, most parties acheive that by electing a new leader, a person who can straddle and reconcile the differences in a party. They definitely need a new leader, Adams is past his sell by date, and now becoming more of a liability by the day. McGuinness is of the same generation and probably happy in Stormont.....who do they have ....don't know that much about him...but would someone like Conor Murphy fit the bill....from a border constituency so he might better understand politics in the south?

[Nodin]

By any standards, going from 7 to 4 councillors in Dublin is a crisis.

I know quite a few SF members and supporters and they seem to break down as follows :
1. Those who supported " the lads " during the troubles and are a bit bewildered as to where they stand now so they just accept the leadership line on just about everything.
2. The FF lite, who, understandably, could not support FF but are not dissimilar to them. They are hard party workers though.
3. Hard lefters for whom the " troubles " were never an issue as they were not alive for most of it. They are almost natural Labour Party material but find their socialism doesn't sit easily with Labour's record in coalition governments. However, they must be wondering about the socialist track record of their party at Stormont .
4. The "we're agin everything " brigade who were in the party while " the lads " were at their most active and who now would be more comfortable with those who too are against everything and will never see power in any shape or form at any level, such as Joe Higgins, SP, PBP and all that crowd.

My observations are in relation to the South only, hardly know a handful of shinners in the North.
That kettle must be nearly boiled by now.

A not un-accurate assessment.

I'm a mixture of one and three, and find myself mostly bewildered at what the hell went wrong. Wind in the sails one minute, drifting listlessly then for the next few years till now. There's no focus, no drive. Chucking Mary Lou at the world like she was a mixture of political duct tape and super glue to fix everything seemed to only highlight the malaise. Can't even give a transfer to Labour due to [SIZE="1"]Enda Kenny & Co[/SIZE].....despise FF......One can only hope that theres an overhaul and soon.

[factual]

Firstly I don't want this to seen as a kick SF post, it is just interesting for me as a person who studies politics to observe how a party that the period 1998-2004 seemed to be on a roll and which was frightening the bejaysus out of FF and Labour and since then....despite not being in Government here has been on the slide...(And before someone reponds by saying vote has gone up....vote in core areas in the 2009 locals in Dublin city was down 7.5%, Monaghan down 3.5%, Donegal down only 0.5%, Waterford City down 4.5% and Galway City down 5.5%..acknowledge vote was up in Cork City and Kerry by 2.5%..but overall vote was down at a time when they should have been cleaning up given the anti Govt sentiment) by that's not to say they can't turn it around....but they need a major change of tack....and of course it is a lesson for all political parties....and of course even with a slight improvement they could still win 7 seats next time out....hold all 4 they have now and win 2 in Donegal and win back 1 in Dublin SW...

I agree with most of Crickets analysis, I know it refers to members/supporters....but it is also a good classification for their voters....the growth in their support in the period 1997-2004 was like the boom-founded on very temporary and precarious circumstances.

On top of what cricket says some additional points...

5. They were getting huge publicity in the period 1997-2004. Adams, McGuinness et al and of course the famous doughnut of SF reps around them were on the nightly news a few times a week. The success of the peace process was very much seen as important to people in the south....that has changed, north is seen as sorted......very rare to see them on the nightly news now...and of course Adams was exposed for being a one trick pony in the 2007 GE...and totally out of touch with politics here in the south...

6. Cricket mentions hard work...true SF reps, members, supporters did a lot of hard work on the ground...they managed to get people out to vote who would not necessarily have done so, they worked in areas the other parties had abandoned....but that takes time, money and great energy....in the period they had that influx of young, enthusiastic members, they had the air of the outsider and the whiff of sulphur and of course the US money....FF changed the law circa 2000-2001 so SF can no longer use money collected in the US here. Also many of the then young members are now in their 30's (like Killian Forde) settling down and when you have other commitments, not easy to be out campaigning every night of the week. The democratic centralism and of course the requirement that councillors give up some of their allowances must rankle...so you probably have councillors who feel they are required to work twice as hard as other councillors but get half the money. That has to explain some of the attrition in their local councillors in recent years. OK when you are 25 with no commitments, but when you are older and have commitments and in the current environment....must put pressure on reps. And of course same applies to members, many of them don't have the time and energy to be out working "the ground".

They have a dilemma, they could go further to the left and pick up votes in the Dublin and other cities but that will just alienate their voters in Kerry, Monaghan, Donegal etc...or ditch the left wing/equality stuff and go after the soft FFers.....but that will alienate left wing vote in urban areas.

They definitely need a new direction and new strategy, most parties acheive that by electing a new leader, a person who can straddle and reconcile the differences in a party. They definitely need a new leader, Adams is past his sell by date, and now becoming more of a liability by the day. McGuinness is of the same generation and probably happy in Stormont.....who do they have ....don't know that much about him...but would someone like Conor Murphy fit the bill....from a border constituency so he might better understand politics in the south?

While obviously there is no vacancy and Gerry Adams is a very good leader no doubt at some point he will stand down in a number of years and at that time I have always argued that the new leader should be a TD.

[alan1122]

By any standards, going from 7 to 4 councillors in Dublin is a crisis.

I know quite a few SF members and supporters and they seem to break down as follows :
1. Those who supported " the lads " during the troubles and are a bit bewildered as to where they stand now so they just accept the leadership line on just about everything.
2. The FF lite, who, understandably, could not support FF but are not dissimilar to them. They are hard party workers though.
3. Hard lefters for whom the " troubles " were never an issue as they were not alive for most of it. They are almost natural Labour Party material but find their socialism doesn't sit easily with Labour's record in coalition governments. However, they must be wondering about the socialist track record of their party at Stormont .
4. The "we're agin everything " brigade who were in the party while " the lads " were at their most active and who now would be more comfortable with those who too are against everything and will never see power in any shape or form at any level, such as Joe Higgins, SP, PBP and all that crowd.

My observations are in relation to the South only, hardly know a handful of shinners in the North.
That kettle must be nearly boiled by now.

To be fair you forgot the 5th group in SFmembers: those who saw the first leg of their own selfish political ambitions and joined SF and then delibrately duped hard working SF members and party officials, secured nominations and won council seats only to jump ship and deceitfully join other political partys to persue the next phase of their careers.