Seanad votes 31:20 against vouching of ' Party Leaders Allowance' expenses

[gijoe]

I can see this vote being referred to when it comes to a referendum on the abolition of the Seanad. They have voted 31:20 against amending political funding legislation so that the 'Party Leaders Allowance' given to Independent TD's and Senators will have to be receipted. The Allowance for Party members is already vouched in SIPO declarations.

Government blocks Seanad move to abolish unvouched independents

[Mugsey23]

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas FFS

[MacBeth]

I wonder what way the great Eamonn Coughlan voted

Seanad: Eamonn Coghlan gets members on their feet - YouTube

[Blucher]

I can see this vote being referred to when it comes to a referendum on the abolition of the Seanad. They have voted 31:20 against amending political funding legislation so that the 'Party Leaders Allowance' given to Independent TD's and Senators will have to be receipted. The Allowance for Party members is already vouched in SIPO declarations.

Government blocks Seanad move to abolish unvouched independents

Have you got a list of the yeas & nays?

[gijoe]

I see that David Norris was the only non government Senator to vote against the proposal. I suppose he needs this allowance to pay off his election costs, but is that what this 'allowance' is for?

[SEANADSUPPORTER]

It was good to see many of the Independent Senators voting to change this practice. However, it was largely the government Senators who voted against this proposal. In essence, Fine Gael and Labour are now seemingly manipulating the news coming out of the Seanad to have an even bigger stick to the bat it with when the time for the referendum on Seanad abolition come about. They want a Yes vote to vest more power in themselves with no Dáil reforms being proposed. Vote NO and push the Reform Agenda.

[Garland Names the Skies]

I look forward to the vote to reduce their pay to zero when the referendum comes along

[SEANADSUPPORTER]

I look forward to the vote to reduce their pay to zero when the referendum comes along

Why not substantially reduce to pay to €20,000-€30,000 and remove the Leader's allowance available to independent Senators along with other perks available to Senators? If we are to go by a cost argument, then doing this (which should be possible as the Seanad is not supposed to reflect the Dáil), then the government's main argument for abolition is removed. If a cost argument was used for referendum, then the Dáil should in fact be abolished.

[Garland Names the Skies]

Why not substantially reduce to pay to €20,000-€30,000 and remove the Leader's allowance available to independent Senators along with other perks available to Senators? If we are to go by a cost argument, then doing this (which should be possible as the Seanad is not supposed to reflect the Dáil), then the government's main argument for abolition is removed. If a cost argument was used for referendum, then the Dáil should in fact be abolished.

I don't care about the Governments reasons for abolishing it. My own view is good enough for me. Cost is but a nice bonus to the removal of this excess fat on the apparatus of the state

[whooley]

It was good to see many of the Independent Senators voting to change this practice. However, it was largely the government Senators who voted against this proposal. In essence, Fine Gael and Labour are now seemingly manipulating the news coming out of the Seanad to have an even bigger stick to the bat it with when the time for the referendum on Seanad abolition come about. They want a Yes vote to vest more power in themselves with no Dáil reforms being proposed. Vote NO and push the Reform Agenda.

I'm not sure that your comment accurately reflects the circumstances of the vote. It appears to me that the reasons why the government senators voted against the amendment were nothing to do with what you suggest. Rather it seems that the issue of the unvouched expenses was not relevant to the legislation being discussed, which was the Electoral (Amendment)(Political Funding) Bill 2011: Committee Stage.

If you want to persuade people that the Seanad is worth saving, it would be worthwhile to try to provide a more detailed and accurate account of what the senators are getting up to. If I am misreading the relevant Seanad debate, perhaps you can correct me.

Electoral (Amendment)(Political...: 15 Feb 2012: Seanad debates (KildareStreet.com)

Keane welcomes upcoming review on unvouched Independent