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  1. #21
    Oscurito Oscurito is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taidhg Gaelach View Post
    I wish him well. A good king is infinitely better than a bad democratic régime (and all democratic régimes are bad).
    Democracy hasn't been covering itself in glory of late but not all democratic regimes are bad.

    Democracy is a complicated thing. It requires - on the part of the voters - a good level of education, loyalty to the state, tolerance and concern for the rights of minorities. Without any one of those, disasters can happen.
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  2. #22
    Oscurito Oscurito is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly Ticks View Post
    Despot.
    You do know the meaning of the above word, right?

    How can he be a despot when he doesn't have absolute power?
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  3. #23
    Oscurito Oscurito is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    Two of the worst things about things about our current set up here in the West are disrespect for the past (which easily turns into disrespect for the elderly) and connected to it an almost pathological "short termism", two things exactly that a Monarch who in any way really manifests the "Archtype" of Monarchy undermines. I for one will also be praying for his Majesty.
    One of the British royals (wife of Prince William, I think) is visiting the Netherlands at the moment and there was a group of Dutch people at one venue to welcome her. One of them made that very point: that politicians come and go and reflect the passing whims and fancies of people while a monarch provides much greater continuity.
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  4. #24
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly Ticks View Post
    Despot.
    I don't see how he can be - the public clearly overwhelmingly support him.
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  5. #25
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscurito View Post
    One of the British royals (wife of Prince William, I think) is visiting the Netherlands at the moment and there was a group of Dutch people at one venue to welcome her. One of them made that very point: that politicians come and go and reflect the passing whims and fancies of people while a monarch provides much greater continuity.
    That's true but it also ebbs and flows depending on the monarch.

    The current UK Queen has indeed provided a great degree of stability and has rarely put a foot wrong.

    Her son, however, is unlikely to be such a unifying figure.

    The same is true in Thailand - the Crown Prince is nowhere near as popular as his father as far as I can see.

    The trouble with monarchy is that it's great when you get a good one and awful when you don't.

    A good monarch unifies, a bad monarch divides. There's nothing guaranteed about monarchy providing stability - look at how many countries got rid of monarchies. They can be the cause of division too.
    Last edited by blokesbloke; 13th October 2016 at 10:31 AM.
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  6. #26
    Polly Ticks Polly Ticks is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by blokesbloke View Post
    I don't see how he can be - the public clearly overwhelmingly support him.
    They say the same about the North Korean public, don't they?

    Actually Thailand is deeply divided.

    The ruling National Council for Peace and Order, led by Prime Minister Gen. Prayut Chan-ocha, has banned political activity and peaceful public gatherings; criminalized freedom of expression; made hundreds of arbitrary arrests; and held detainees in incommunicado military detention without safeguards against abuses. Military courts are regularly used to try civilians, particularly political dissidents and alleged offenders of the lese majeste (insulting the monarchy) laws. In southern border provinces, rights abuses continue unabated in the conflict between separatist groups and security forces.
    https://www.hrw.org/asia/thailand

    You know maybe, just maybe they are scared to speak out...

    The government has made frequent use of Thailand’s draconian law against “insulting the monarchy.” The authorities have brought at least 59 lese majeste cases since the May 2014 coup, mostly for online commentary. On December 14, 2015, the junta brought lese majeste charges in military court against a man for spreading sarcastic Facebook images and comments that were deemed to be mocking the king’s pet dog.
    Has the King spoken out against any of this? I will gladly change my view if he has...
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  7. #27
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly Ticks View Post
    They say the same about the North Korean public, don't they?

    Actually Thailand is deeply divided.

    https://www.hrw.org/asia/thailand

    You know maybe, just maybe they are scared to speak out...

    Has the King spoken out against any of this? I will gladly change my view if he has...
    Nonsense, you're just totally cynical. Typical decadent European. (And remember, democracy is always worse anyway)

    Thais all love their king, and nobody is afraid to criticize him, they just don't seem to want to, that's all.

    The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see' - BBC News
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  8. #28
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscurito View Post
    The news from Bangkok as to the health of His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej is getting increasingly grim. His Majesty has not been seen in public in months and has spent the last several weeks battling a series of illnesses in the city's Siriraj Hospital.

    The King's son, Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, the heir apparent abruptly cancelled an engagement on Wednesday afternoon and arranged an emergency meeting with the country's prime minister, Prayuth Chan-ocha.

    Meanwhile, thousands of the King's subjects are gathering outside the hospital fearing the worst but praying for the best. The crowds are wearing yellow and pink; yellow to represent the King and pink as a colour to promote good health and recovery. As the world's longest reigning monarch, his passing would mark a major watershed in Thai, Asian and world history.

    It's difficult for westerners to understand the relationship between the Thai king and his subjects. He's far more than a mere constitutional monarch such as we see in the Netherlands or Sweden. In many ways, he defines what the Thai nation is and represents - even superseding the democratic will at times and we have seen examples of this in the last few years when the Thai military intervened to defend the status quo from democratically elected governments.

    The nearest analogy I can think of is the traditional Catholic view of the Pope. It doesn't matter what the majority of Catholics think. The leader is supreme.

    Sydney Morning Herald: Emergency meeting called as Thais pray for king's 'unstable' health
    Well it would be more correct to say that he "defines" the military and conservative elites in the cities. He has repeatedly taken their side over the rural poor, and supported the anti-Thaksin coups against elected govts.

    There are parallels with the 18th century monarchies over Europe that wanted to keep the hoi-poloi in their place. There are differences too. In France during the Revolution for example, the heartland of the monarchist supporters were in rural areas like the Vendeé, whereas the cities like Paris were Republican. In Thailand the cities are royalist and pro military whereas the countryside is pro Thaksin.

    Its very hard to know what role the king plays behind the scenes, because the lese-majeste laws are used by the military to crack down on the Opposition. Recently a man got 10 years for making fun of the king's dog, while a woman got 25 years for typing "I see" in response to anti monarchy comments on Facebook. There was even a jail sentence for someone who criticised a king who died 300 years ago.

    Its undoubtedly the case that Thaksin is deeply unpopular in the big cities, where he is accused of resorting to questionable methods to buy votes. However I am not particularly a fan of his either, remembering the allegations of human rights abuses in the Muslim South that used to be an independent kingdom centuries ago. But its also a much more extreme version of the class-conflict we are seeing in the West. Note for example the posh young things going on youtube after the Brexit vote (including a very popular Irish woman) arguing the uneducated should have a vote because they don't understand. Similar arguments were made by some of the anti Thaksin protesters.
    Last edited by Dame_Enda; 13th October 2016 at 10:06 AM.
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  9. #29
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline

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    Monarchy conforms to a celestial Archetype- Our Lord not only came as High Priest and Prophet but also as King. While Catholicism doesnt have the dogmatic attachment to Monarchism that Anglicanism and many of the Byzantine Orthodox do never the less I do think that Monarchy suits her best. A True Monarch does radiate a numinous energy; Arthur, Alfred the Great, St Edward the Confessor, Edward Longshanks, Richard the Lionheart and Queen Mary even through all the time that separates us from them still speak to us through their very being with a forceful and yet calming quality. Unfortunately the Windsors do not because well they arent Legitimate Monarchs. I will say though that one of the most numinous experiences in my life was being introduced to His Majesty, the Duke of Bavaria and Rightful King of Scotland, Ireland and England Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern.
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  10. #30
    Vega1447 Vega1447 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    Monarchy conforms to a celestial Archetype- Our Lord not only came as High Priest and Prophet but also as King. While Catholicism doesnt have the dogmatic attachment to Monarchism that Anglicanism and many of the Byzantine Orthodox do never the less I do think that Monarchy suits her best. A True Monarch does radiate a numinous energy; Arthur, Alfred the Great, St Edward the Confessor, Edward Longshanks, Richard the Lionheart and Queen Mary even through all the time that separates us from them still speak to us through their very being with a forceful and yet calming quality. Unfortunately the Windsors do not because well they arent Legitimate Monarchs. I will say though that one of the most numinous experiences in my life was being introduced to His Majesty, the Duke of Bavaria and Rightful King of Scotland, Ireland and England Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern.
    That's Frank yeah? Bavaria Frank as he told us to call him. Some lad for d'aul steins of weissbier is Frank.

    And he's the King of Ireland? Fvck.. He never said anything about that. And he has a girl's name there in the middle.

    He never mentioned that - we'd have slagged him about that all right.

    Anyway King Frankie, who knew? Will he live in a tent in the Park outside the Aras?
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