The PD's legacy

[hopi watcher]

Death on a waiting list.

[Pauli]

You really are tiresomely boring little fellow aren't you? You might like to educate yourself before making a total ass of yourself. The PDs are described as populist, neo-liberal and even fascist on this thread. They can't have been all 3 except in the overly fertile mind of the Cappuccino Leftists on here whose big decision of the day is to drive down to the shopping centre coffee house in Doddy's 4x4 or Mummy's 4x4.

The PDs had a liberal model that they tried to apply to Ireland. They got some of the way but their brand was contaminated when they brought on board Tom Parlon, a typical sleazy country gombeen who wouldn't know Liberalism if it bit him. Furthermore while Jack O'Connor, Joe Trotsky Higgins and Assorted other members of the loony left might class the PD/FF combo as neo-liberal the populist instincts of the FFers won out. A true liberal government would never have introduced benchmarking, never allowed the HSE to keep all their employees from the Health Boards, never allowed the monstrosity in Punchestown or the tax breaks for property to continue as long as they did.

It should also be remembered that their early crop of TDs were amongst the smartest and most articulate to enter the Dail. They had ideas and honesty. Had the PDs stuck to their early guns and insisted on proper tax reform instead of being FF lite post 2002 they would still be around today and I would be voting for them. What's more I wouldn't be the only one.

McCreevy, who possessed the DNA of a PD, was responsible for the porl-barrel project that was Punchestown. He paid for this by cutbacks to carers in the home and over his 7 budgets gave these people nothing. A true PD.

[Clanrickard]

McCreevy, who possessed the DNA of a PD, was responsible for the porl-barrel project that was Punchestown. He paid for this by cutbacks to carers in the home and over his 7 budgets gave these people nothing. A true PD.

That post was ridiculous. The original PDs were opposed to pork barrel projects. McGreevy was an old fashioned tax and spend FF politician no matter how much the right on media spin it.

[Pauli]

That post was ridiculous. The original PDs were opposed to pork barrel projects. McGreevy was an old fashioned tax and spend FF politician no matter how much the right on media spin it.

I knew it couldn't last Clanny!

McCreevy was a doctrinaire PD ideologue who implemented 7 doctrinaire PD budgets in a row. He and Harney dictated economic policy for 7 years while Ahern was busy opening pubs or whatever it was he was doing to get his picture in the paper. There is no getting away from that.

And he was particularly vicious to carers in the home. McCreevy gave them nothing in all the time he was Finance Minister.

[Clanrickard]

I knew it couldn't last Clanny!

McCreevy was a doctrinaire PD ideologue who implemented 7 doctrinaire PD budgets in a row. He and Harney dictated economic policy for 7 years while Ahern was busy opening pubs or whatever it was he was doing to get his picture in the paper. There is no getting away from that.

And he was particularly vicious to carers in the home. McCreevy gave them nothing in all the time he was Finance Minister.

See Garret Fitz's commentary in the IT after the 2004 elections where he nailed that lie. McGreevy increased the spending big time to buy the 2002 election and increased the number in the public sector. He caused the mess we are in. Oh....I forget the back of a fag packet decentralisation programme. None of this is true to the PD programme and well you know it. The left fear the PDs because they have been far far more successful than left wing groups of similar or greater size. The electorate are far more attracted to a party that says "you keep your hard earned cash to spend as you will" as opposed to leftists who will take it off them and give it to someone else.

[tenderloins1]

Was lucky enough to have been present at the PDs first public meeting in Sutton. It was a momentous occassion. Where they had expected a crowd they hadn't realised the depth of enthusiasm for the new party.
O'Malley was a wonderful orator and to me (16 at the time) a charismatic charachter.
O'Malley then addressed big public meetings all over the country, of which I attended a number and joined the party. I left after two years.

What was their initial appeal?
Their Economic philosopy certainly wasn't to the fore, other than to get the public finances in order.
What they did champion was a liberal agenda. Simple things like contracception and being in favour of divorce were huge things in that neither FF or FG had the full ability, because of their membership and indeed the power of the church at the time, to promote these things.

Up to then almost every party manifesto had the few lines about wanting a united Ireland, The PDs had a different slant on the North which was a lot more realistic in terms of unionist consent.
The calibre of TD that joined them and that got elected was good. They were seen as honest as opposed to Haughey run FF.
It was early on though that these main pillars of their policy got implemented. Which left them with the economics.
I think the implementation faster than had been expected of their socialy liberal agenda was one part of their legacy.
The economic one, FF were by far the bigger party, so I dont for one minute think they let the tail wag the dog. What it did do was allow FF to say that various policies were the PDs fault.

[FakeViking]

You really are tiresomely boring little fellow aren't you? You might like to educate yourself before making a total ass of yourself. The PDs are described as populist, neo-liberal and even fascist on this thread. They can't have been all 3 except in the overly fertile mind of the Cappuccino Leftists on here whose big decision of the day is to drive down to the shopping centre coffee house in Doddy's 4x4 or Mummy's 4x4.

The PDs had a liberal model that they tried to apply to Ireland. They got some of the way but their brand was contaminated when they brought on board Tom Parlon, a typical sleazy country gombeen who wouldn't know Liberalism if it bit him. Furthermore while Jack O'Connor, Joe Trotsky Higgins and Assorted other members of the loony left might class the PD/FF combo as neo-liberal the populist instincts of the FFers won out. A true liberal government would never have introduced benchmarking, never allowed the HSE to keep all their employees from the Health Boards, never allowed the monstrosity in Punchestown or the tax breaks for property to continue as long as they did.

It should also be remembered that their early crop of TDs were amongst the smartest and most articulate to enter the Dail. They had ideas and honesty. Had the PDs stuck to their early guns and insisted on proper tax reform instead of being FF lite post 2002 they would still be around today and I would be voting for them. What's more I wouldn't be the only one.

What a load of apologist nonsense, Clan. The record of the PDs is clear: they (aided and abbetted by the gombeen yes-men of FF) steered my country into the deepest abyss. Yes, they had some good moments, but even the Shankill Butchers had a kind side.

[Pauli]

See Garret Fitz's commentary in the IT after the 2004 elections where he nailed that lie. McGreevy increased the spending big time to buy the 2002 election and increased the number in the public sector. He caused the mess we are in. Oh....I forget the back of a fag packet decentralisation programme. None of this is true to the PD programme and well you know it. The left fear the PDs because they have been far far more successful than left wing groups of similar or greater size. The electorate are far more attracted to a party that says "you keep your hard earned cash to spend as you will" as opposed to leftists who will take it off them and give it to someone else.

Garret is not somebody whose word I take as gospel. McCreevy did begin spending in a big way in recruitment to the public sector and hatched his SSIA scheme as a means of buying both the 2002 and the 2007 elections. But these, like decentralisation, were FF crowdpleasers. What was the PD programme if it wasn't doctrinaire neo-liberalist tosh lead by a political mediocrity in Harney? The PDs were, at the end of the day, a party that strayed so far from its founding principles that it was fundamentally dishonest. And the public copped on to that fact which is why they are gone.

[Clanrickard]

The PDs were, at the end of the day, a party that strayed so far from its founding principles that it was fundamentally dishonest. And the public copped on to that fact which is why they are gone.

That was kind my point there Pauli.

[Pauli]

That was kind my point there Pauli.

Ok Clanny. My point was that their founding principles did not accentuate neo-liberalist economics but more a liberal social agenda. O'Malley was no fan of tooth and claw capitalism but rather a capitalism with something of a safety net for the weakest in society. It only went hideously wrong when Harney became leader of the party and the greed creed took over economic thinking, such as there was at that stage.