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  1. #21
    diaspora-mick diaspora-mick is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    Complete unhindered democracy is essentially like letting the production line workers in Mercedes Benz run the company. Recipe for catastrophe. Which is what we get regularly as a result. Most skilled jobs require certain qualifications or educational background. You wouldn't put your medical diagnosis in the ads of the public vote. Or the design of an passenger jet. But we let every hillbilly or closing time polemicist have an equal say in how to run a vastly complex conundrum called a state! Madness.
    The Confoederatio Helvetica seems to have managed quite well with it since 1291 or thereabouts ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct...cy#Switzerland
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  2. #22
    Finbar10 Finbar10 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by realistic1 View Post
    Only seen any real coverage on Facebook. The Green party, People before profit and various Independents seems on board for reinstatement of article 48. Mainstream media and Establishment political parties seem very quite on the issue.
    There's also the 1Yi "One Year Initiative" with similar goals. Again, it's mostly only the smaller left wing parties, the Green Party, various independents and even a few Sinn Féin candidates that have signed up.
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  3. #23
    lostexpectation lostexpectation is offline

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    if Reinstate 48 was trying to influence election why didn't it sign up as third party ? Register of Third Parties - Standards in Public Office Commission

    Reinstate 48 seeks postering rights IT

    where'd it get 30K from?
    As part of its campaign, the group spent €30,000 putting up six different posters at various locations
    ...did they really spend 30k on posters?
    Does Reinstate 48 accept financial donations? http://www.reinstate48.ie/faqs/
    We are currently running our first crowdfunding appeal. The purpose of the appeal is to raise €2,500 to cover the costs of designing and printing 300 large (A0 size) R48 Election posters. The objective of the posters is to try and raise awareness of the R48 initiative amongst voters during the 2016 General Election campaign. The posters will be erected in high profile public locations by volunteers. If you support the R48 initiative then please consider making a small donation to this crowdfunding appeal.
    Times Ireland report 30k figure too http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/irishn...cle4694248.ece
    Last edited by lostexpectation; 21st February 2016 at 01:53 PM.
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  4. #24
    Finbar10 Finbar10 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostexpectation View Post
    if Reinstate 48 was trying to influence election why didn't it sign up as third party ? Register of Third Parties - Standards in Public Office Commission

    Reinstate 48 seeks postering rights IT

    where it get 30K from?

    ...did they really spend 30k on posters?


    Time Ireland report 30 figure too Campaigners fight council to keep up posters | The Times
    Yes, I saw this. I've no idea where the €30k figure comes from. I doubt it's accurate. They were trying to raise just €2500 to put up some posters (which sounds a far more realistic figure) as can be seen on their website. I like the aims of the group. They just seem to be a well meaning but small scale voluntary group, run on a wing and a prayer (I doubt they are too familiar with electoral law either by the looks of things).

    Ironically, this controversy actually generated some column inches for them (don't think they'd received any newspaper publicity up to then). Probably the wrong kind of publicity (but there's no such thing as bad publicity as they saying goes). Relatively cheap for €2500 too (if that's what they spent)!
    Last edited by Finbar10; 21st February 2016 at 12:01 PM.
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  5. #25
    lostexpectation lostexpectation is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finbar10 View Post
    Yes, I saw this. I've no idea where the €30k figure comes from. I doubt it's accurate. They were trying to raise just €2500 to put up some posters (which sounds a far more realistic figure) as can be seen on their website. I like the aims of the group. They just seem to be a well meaning but small scale voluntary group, run on a wing and a prayer (I doubt they are too familiar with electoral law either by the looks of things).

    Ironically, this controversy actually generated some column inches for them (don't think they'd received any newspaper publicity up to then). Probably the wrong kind of publicity (but there's no such thing as bad publicity as they saying goes). Relatively cheap for €2500 too (if that's what they spent)!
    ironically? could this not have been their plan, put up a few posters, claim they put up loads, claim they spent 30k on them? then go to court when they get taken down = newspaper coverage.
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  6. #26
    Finbar10 Finbar10 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostexpectation View Post
    ironically? could this not have been their plan, put up a few posters, claim they put up loads, claim they spent 30k on them? then go to court when they get taken down = newspaper coverage.
    My default inclination was to assume not, but maybe, as you say, this is all a wheeze to get some media coverage.
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  7. #27
    lostexpectation lostexpectation is offline

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    The Reinstate 48 initiative on icrowdfund
    • 101%funded
    • €2,530.00PLEDGED OF €2,500.00 GOAL

    59 BACKERS
    All funds will be collected on March 12, 2016
    never properly queried that 30k figure
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  8. #28
    gleeful gleeful is offline

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    It was a form of grassroots pressure and 'direct democracy' that resulted in the 8th ammendment. Mob rule doesnt result in good law.
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  9. #29
    Finbar10 Finbar10 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gleeful View Post
    It was a form of grassroots pressure and 'direct democracy' that resulted in the 8th ammendment. Mob rule doesnt result in good law.
    The reality was, back in the early 1980s, that all leaders of three major parties publicly supported an amendment on abortion. If the constitution could have been simply changed by some supermajority, e.g. two-thirds, then it is highly likely such an amendment would have been brought in then regardless.

    It likely might have been brought in by citizen initiative if such a mechanism had been available back then. However, the converse holds also. If we currently had such a mechanism, I've no doubt an initiative to repeal the 8th amendment would have been triggered and we might be voting on whether to repeal or amend it. The way things are looking now we probably won't get a vote on this during this Dáil term. Of course, constitutions commonly exclude, with some justification, certain topics from citizen initiative mechanisms, e.g. fundamental rights, sovereignty, international treaties, citizenship. In that case, referendum decisions on topics like the 8th amendment, would remain where they were back in the 1980s: with the government of the day.

    "Mob" rule as you put it, or complementing representative democracy with a measure of direct democracy, seems to have worked reasonably well where it has been tried, e.g. Switzerland, though not perfect, isn't exactly an economic basket case and also all the individual German states (Lander) have citizen initiative mechanisms.
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  10. #30
    Finbar10 Finbar10 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostexpectation View Post
    The Reinstate 48 initiative on icrowdfund


    never properly queried that 30k figure
    Thanks, I'd spotted that total a while back. Not sure where the €30k figure came from (I think I only ever saw the €30k figure quoted in one newspaper, nowhere else). Heard nothing more either about that court case on the right to put up posters (pretty pointless now I guess). Probably just a publicity stunt as you said previously.
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