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  1. #21
    shiel shiel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by lostexpectation View Post
    its the part faithful being elected now, i think there's a chance of more variety if its the public voting for it, more then whipped politicians, and councillors.
    If you think that you are not dealing with reality.

    Only political parties have the resources to campaign on a national basis.
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  2. #22
    Telemachus Telemachus is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post

    Temporary quotas aren't going to deliver worse results than we've had... imo... and may well create a legacy of making the 'system' more attractive to and viable for a much greater number of citizens than the current cliques, many of which are made up of clueless self serving tossers...
    Except it wont be temporary, this will be used then to justify Nordic style quotas on company boards and god knows what else.

    Its all driven by the faulty axiom that men and women should have equal outcomes as they are the same essentially in their base tastes and interests, and the only reason they dont have the same outcomes is irrational misogyny/sexism.
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  3. #23
    lostexpectation lostexpectation is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    If you think that you are not dealing with reality.

    Only political parties have the resources to campaign on a national basis.
    I said there is chance of more variety then as of now, I stand by that

    would it require national campaigning to get elected it still be based on who you know as much as knowledge and experience
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  4. #24
    Betson Betson is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post

    You only have to look at the a'holes who infest much of the body politic now and in the past to know that we're not getting anywhere close to the best of the best... regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation blah blah blah...

    Temporary quotas aren't going to deliver worse results than we've had... imo... and may well create a legacy of making the 'system' more attractive to and viable for a much greater number of citizens than the current cliques, many of which are made up of clueless self serving tossers...
    What makes you think for a second that that Gender quota's would improve this one bit?

    As we have see the quango queens we have are just as good as milking the system as the quango kings.

    And look at a lot of the female ministers and TD's, senators we have had over the years , can you really say they have been any worse or better than their male counterparts?

    You say other groups as well , how does that work? will every group get equal quota's?

    Gender quota's are a total nonsense obsessed on by an element of the overly politically correct middle classes.

    If you had to introduce quota's to ensure fairness all then surely economic class factors should be the overriding factor , these are the most disadvantaged in society and they are really disadvantaged not the makey up stuff that the 'gender crowd' are always crowing about.

    It is like when we had useless Equality authority quango which ignored real inequality in the country and spend fortunes on court cases so middle class women could join some golf club in Portmarnock or somewhere like that.
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  5. #25
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telemachus View Post
    Except it wont be temporary, this will be used then to justify Nordic style quotas on company boards and god knows what else.
    Why do you say that?

    Why can't it be temporary?

    There is no reason in the world why it can't be temporary and declared as such from the outset... although I fully understand why some would claim otherwise... because it suits them and their interests...

    And I wouldn't stop at gender quotas either...

    The 'system' is gasping for new blood and new ideas and new thinking... which the incumbents are incapable of...

    Its all driven by the faulty axiom that men and women should have equal outcomes as they are the same essentially in their base tastes and interests, and the only reason they dont have the same outcomes is irrational misogyny/sexism.
    I don't think so really...

    It's driven more by the abysmal failure of what's there now imo...
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  6. #26
    Betson Betson is offline

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    I haven't the patience to read through it all but when the Crown/Zappa bill was first published before the referendum it included a 50% pay cut for senators , is this still in their Bill?
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  7. #27
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betson View Post
    What makes you think for a second that that Gender quota's would improve this one bit?

    As we have see the quango queens we have are just as good as milking the system as the quango kings.
    That's just another part of the 'system' being f***ed and requiring a massive overhaul...

    Women are as capable of being useless greedy self serving wasters just as much as men are...

    And look at a lot of the female ministers and TD's, senators we have had over the years , can you really say they have been any worse or better than their male counterparts?
    There have been far fewer of them than males... so it's not really possible to tell...

    They are as capable of being just as bad and useless as their male counterparts... no doubt about that...

    You say other groups as well , how does that work? will every group get equal quota's?
    Nah... but I'd reserve some seats for people who don't have third level education for example...

    Some of the most sensible people I've come across don't have third level education which enables them to cut through the crap because they're not up their own arses...

    Gender quota's are a total nonsense obsessed on by an element of the overly politically correct middle classes.
    Well that ain't me...

    I'm far from politically correct...

    And I do wish quotas weren't required to get some sort of balance into the 'system'...

    But considering the decades of corruption and cute hoors and criminality in a rigged system enabled by rigged laws... well... let's just say my patience has run out with what's there and I don't believe for a second that the incumbents are capable of or interested in doing what's necessary to clean up the rotten 'system'.

    If you had to introduce quota's to ensure fairness all then surely economic class factors should be the overriding factor , these are the most disadvantaged in society and they are really disadvantaged not the makey up stuff that the 'gender crowd' are always crowing about.
    As I said, I wouldn't be opposed to looking at other quotas...

    It is like when we had useless Equality authority quango which ignored real inequality in the country and spend fortunes on court cases so middle class women could join some golf club in Portmarnock or somewhere like that.
    Nah... it's not really but if you want to think that and believe it... off you go...

    The status quo suits some people.
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  8. #28
    publicrealm publicrealm is offline
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    Michael McDowell suggested at a Democracy Matters meeting last Monday that the Government might seek to present the current Bill (to extend the Seanad vote to all graduates) as their response to the referendum.

    That's it - Seanad reformed - we listened to the people?
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  9. #29
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by publicrealm View Post
    Michael McDowell suggested at a Democracy Matters meeting last Monday that the Government might seek to present the current Bill (to extend the Seanad vote to all graduates) as their response to the referendum.

    That's it - Seanad reformed - we listened to the people?
    If they think that's going to placate people they're a lot thicker than even I thought...

    That's not going to wash...
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  10. #30
    Betson Betson is offline

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    As regards the quota's on the Seanad if it is theoretically possible to impose a Gender quota of 50/ 50 without a referendum , then is is also constitutionally possible if the Government decided on a whim that at 50% of the senators must be for example members of FG, white , etc, etc.
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