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  1. #151
    And So I Said And So I Said is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by flavirostris View Post
    Most people have come to the conclusion that it's FF that are not suitable to run the economy.
    or a tap.
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  2. #152
    factual factual is offline

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    FF is to the left of FG but to the right of centre.

    Only Labour and SF are to the left of centre - with SF being more focussed on the welfar of the poorest.
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  3. #153
    And So I Said And So I Said is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Casey View Post
    Utter nonsense. You used the word bribe in relation to those election campaigns, fact is, with all the percieved incompetencies of the FF leadership at the time, they were better able to "bribe" the electorate that the opposition. Rest assured both were at it equally but the most galling thing for FG is that they were unable to win an election in 3 attempts against what they consider to be the most incompetent taoiseach the country ever produced.


    Vincent Browne asks Cowen too resign for what he has and his party have brought the country too, they wash their hands as always are not too blame
    as ministers in chariots like the last days of the Roman empire sweep past protestors , Ireland black day , .
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  4. #154
    Mossy Heneberry Mossy Heneberry is offline
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    Different A$$holes, same shíte.
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  5. #155
    And So I Said And So I Said is offline

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    I have a feeling this thread will out live the government, and the next.
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  6. #156
    Bishop Casey Bishop Casey is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by flavirostris View Post
    Fianna Fáil bought those 2 elections about 6 months before any ballots had been cast. It's well documented in Pat Leahy's book. In both cases, FF ramped up public spending massively in order to buy the votes of the elderly, SW recipients and PS workers. Your statement above makes no sense as an opposition party don't have control of the purse strings. You have to be in power to make those kind of spending increases. In a sense neither '02 or '07 was a fair contest since Fianna Fáil had done so much to buy so many votes beforehand. FG performed a minor miracle to come as close to power as they did in 2007, since so many had been bought by FF.

    McCreevy admitted to this when he said it "was my job to win the election for Fianna Fáil not for Fine Gael or Labour".
    A little recap here, I stated the our political system is flawed and that the current government are no more competent than the previous administration. You stated that "bribes" made in 2002 and 2007 by FF ensured that the won the election and were wrong, which is something I agree with. I am not here to defend the actions of those governments (I don't blame them for the rain tonight though) but I am simply stating that FG would have implemented the same policies (or as near as made no difference) had they been given the chance. Your point about social welfare increases in the months leading up to an election is a valid one but what was FG's response at the time? Something about a Bad Santa and how the benefit increases didn't go far enough. When it came down to those general election campaigns, the growth projections and government spending were almost identical between all 3 main parties. The election campiagns were fought on how best to utilise these figures. In 2007 FG promised: free GP visits for children under 5, 100,000 more medical cards, 2000 more gardai, extend stamp duty, increase old age pension to €300 per week, lower rate tax cut to 18%, 2300 new acute hospital beds and so on.

    Don't get me wrong, it is politics and I understand why these promises were made but my point is that our political system is fundamentally flawed. The most tangible moment that the system was tested was the night of the bank guarantee and our system had a solicitor and a barrister charged with making a complex economic decision, a decision they got wrong. The same political system would have 3 teachers in the room if a similar decision was posed to central government today. The crux of my point is that the people who are currently in governmnt have demonstrated by their political careers in opposition that they are no better equipped to run this country than the outgoing administration, they just happened to be in the right place at the right time and not to be tarnished with the arrival of the IMF and the bailout.

    A question I pose to FG members is: Are you proud of how your party performed in the 2002 - 2008 years?
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  7. #157
    redsaint redsaint is offline

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    They are both loved by the rich and powerful.
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  8. #158
    bye bye mubarak bye bye mubarak is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'orebel View Post
    We do not have a hive mind. We are all individuals.
    Baaaa baaaa
    I'm not
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  9. #159
    realistic1 realistic1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3volution_R3ady View Post
    Can you FG'ers and FF'ers please explain to me the differences between your parties?

    I'm at a loss when trying to understand exactly what each of you claim to stand for. Apart from the political point scoring and childish shite throwing, where do your policies actually differ? Let's put them on the table so that we can obtain a clear and concise distinction between both of you. It seems to me that you're one and the same. I'm wondering when the day will come when we can spare paper space on the ballot by you two merging together. Both of you voted for the bailouts, both are obsessively pro-EU "Yes to Jobs", both are determined to avoid reform and prop up the status quo, both are against free markets, both fear the unions, none of you are interested in civil liberties, both are Parish pump parties....and now FG are following FF policy, so in effect FG are a continuation of FF. Does one of you stand for economic conservatism? Does one of you stand for social liberalism?

    In fact, I honestly can't see any substantial difference between you at all. If I'm missing something, please feel free to correct me. This is a genuine question.
    The only difference at present is Fine Gael are enjoying the spoils of office e.g. Ministerial pay, pensions etc. I suppose it is only fair that Fine Gael got a turn on the bigger Gravy train
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  10. #160
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Casey View Post
    A question I pose to FG members is: Are you proud of how your party performed in the 2002 - 2008 years?
    You may recall that after the 2002 election, the talking heads wanted FG to vanish, there were even some who suggested that the PDs should launch a reverse takeover. I joined in early 2004 and remember canvassing outside Sandycove Dart station in the locals and being told "F.. off, I want me benchmarking" by one commuter. I remember in 2007 when FG did not have enough front benchers with a national profile to convince the people that they could form a govt. Memories are short but people knew we had a building bubble and again, I remember being told "FF are good for the builders". The internet is a great place for meaning of life arguments but when it comes to elections"its about my economy, stupid".
    To answer your question, pride is not an emotion I associate with a political party.
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