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  1. #21
    antiestablishmentarian antiestablishmentarian is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpanzee View Post
    I'm not sure that either qualifies a a lie. Particularly Gilmore's. He gave two options and it turned out to be (b).

    I think half, no maybe 2/3rds of what comes out of Uncle Joe's mouths to be lies, but you'd disagree. What you are suggesting is daft. I can't see how any politician that was pretty certain of being in opposition (like Uncle Joe & co) would be prevented from telling lies. Joe could tell us that he'd tax the rich and give free stuff to the poor and balance the budget by June , but even an outrageous suggestion like that would never be put to the test and therefore never be a 'lie'.
    Not really. 'Uncle Joe' would be eligible for the 15 years too if the ULA were ever holding the balance of power, something which may yet happen, so they'd be forced to outline their programme and what they'd do in power to avoid jail time.
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  2. #22
    antiestablishmentarian antiestablishmentarian is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpanzee View Post
    And...?

    The problem here isn't the politicians, it is the stoopid electorate. Any adult who believes any electoral 'promise' shouldn't be allowed to vote.
    Your cynicism is remarkably candid, but in the end why should we bother with democracy of politicians can't be held eligible for the lies they use to get elected?
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  3. #23
    1982BCE 1982BCE is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunkyBoogaloo View Post
    So, we go by Manifestos... which, once elected, are lightly thrown aside by political parties.
    So we vote for party A. They fail to live up to their manifesto.
    Next election we vote for party B. They fail to live up to their manifesto.
    Next election we vote for party C. They fail to live up to their manifesto.
    Next election we vote for party D......
    The hope being that eventually we get a party who actually do what they pledged to do...
    Well one lives in hope!
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  4. #24
    Hewson Hewson is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpanzee View Post
    And...?

    The problem here isn't the politicians, it is the stoopid electorate. Any adult who believes any electoral 'promise' shouldn't be allowed to vote.
    Well, given that Lowry tops the poll in N Tipperary consistently it can be concluded that a significant proportion of the electorate is ambivalent to dishonesty and lying in public life.
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  5. #25
    stakerwallace stakerwallace is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    This and previous governments have used spin, propoganda, lies and fearmongering to manipulate the electorate and get themselves voted into power. Anyone with a brain will remember Leo Varadkar's 'not another red cent to failed banks' spiel and Gilmore's 'Labour's way or Frankfurt's way' speeches. Of course Fianna Fáil lied and too numerous times and got elected for it, so the question remains, how can politicians and their lackeys like the party hacks who troll this and similar forums be prevented from using dishonest methods to get into power?

    There is one method that could be used to keep them on the straight and narrow: fear. A bill which introduced the concept of lying to be elected to political office as electoral fraud, be it to a county council or the Oireachtas, could do the trick. Those who are elected to public office and,like the current and previous government, implement policies the opposite of those they were elected to carry out, should face a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years, with no parole eligibilty for 12 years and their civil rights, citizenship and passport stripped from them upon release.
    Don't be so damned naive: how do we stop people lying or how do stop ducks quacking?
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  6. #26
    West-Cork West-Cork is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
    I could only watch the first minute. Can we sue this prat for breach of contract?
    The first 30 seconds...

    "I think people have had enough of politicians who make empty promises at election time, and you know what 'so have I'."

    Can be read in two different ways - sounds as much an admission as anything else!
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  7. #27
    1982BCE 1982BCE is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
    Well, given that Lowry tops the poll in N Tipperary consistently it can be concluded that a significant proportion of the electorate is ambivalent to dishonesty and lying in public life.
    Only in so far as his dishonesty and lies work in their favor. Then he's crafty and cunning..
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  8. #28
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1982BCE View Post
    So we vote for party A. They fail to live up to their manifesto.
    Next election we vote for party B. They fail to live up to their manifesto.
    Next election we vote for party C. They fail to live up to their manifesto.
    Next election we vote for party D......
    The hope being that eventually we get a party who actually do what they pledged to do...
    Well one lives in hope!

    Second part of the old political saw that 'all political careers end in failure' is the unspoken line 'and all voters die disappointed'.
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  9. #29
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    Politics also attracts people who are comfortable lying to their neighbours in return for expenses and the shortest qualifying period in society for an attractive pension. Curiously these people are terribly offended and reach for a lawyer very quickly to protect the facade of their 'good name'.

    In fact justice in Ireland has been fairly crippled by the odd notion that politicians are inherently entitled to a good name. Their profession is one of the most debased and scurrilous dens of iniquity outside organised crime. With the possible exception of estate agency- which is also, significantly in Ireland, a common background for an Irish politician.

    Comfortable liars.
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  10. #30
    shiel shiel is offline

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    Why do we continue with this utopian stuff?

    Human beings are corrupted by power.

    Our bankrupt country is evidence of that.

    Denial is a psychological mechanism for trying to come to terms with a realty we cannot or do not want to change.

    We have a free press to hold the powerful people to account but they did not do their job very well up to now.

    Our democratic institutions should be better able to cope with the human tendency to abuse power.

    Taking them all out and shooting them, as some suggest, only makes room for another set to do the same thing.

    Hold them to account and keep changing them is probably the only safe mechanism.
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