Important questions for Socialists

[Kill Bill]

Very true. No system of government in all of human history has produced the spectacular increases in living standards that capitalism has. Its also noticeable that in any country where socialism has become the system of government (as distinct from a socialist party just winning an election here and there), they've ended up erecting barriers - not to keep people out, but to keep people IN. The ultimate admission of failure.

No system of government in all of human history has produced the spectacular misery and wealth gap between rich and poor that capitalism has.

The worlds 200 richest companies exceed the combined GDP of ALL but 10 of the worlds nations.

200 worlds riches people have more combined wealth than 40% of the worlds population.

The assets of the worlds 3 richest people exceed the combined GNP of the poorest 48 countires and their 600 million people.

Yeah it's a great system. Tell that to the thousands queueing at soup kitchens in the centre of capitalism the mighty USA!

The stalinist dictatorships certainly didn't work hence the reason why many socialists opposed them!

[redhead]

Socialism is over because capitalism has always been better than socialism at delivering what socialism promises.

Turns out politicians and bureaucrats are not as good at delivering services than business people - its the mix of capitalism and socialism that gets the job done and its that mix that most people actually vote for.

Have you been in a coma for the past three years?

[Mr. Bumble]

No, I'm talking about spectacular increases for all. Measure over any length of time you like, and the standard of living for everyone has increased by more under capitalism than it has under any other system. Anyway, as an earlier poster said, we don't have unfettered capitalism. We have capitalism with a social element.

The economies that were 'successful' are built on the sand of financial greed and the ultimate expression of unfettered capitalism, i.e. international banking, which is imploding before our eyes. We may indeed have capitalism with a social element but, because we threw out a truly patriotic and social democratic model for venal greed, we are as screwed as the best of them. Unadulterated global capitalism is being exposed for what it is - a three card trick.

[Goldencircle]

lolzy thread

[hiding behind a poster]

The economies that were 'successful' are built on the sand of financial greed and the ultimate expression of unfettered capitalism, i.e. international banking, which is imploding before our eyes. We may indeed have capitalism with a social element but, because we threw out a truly patriotic and social democratic model for venal greed, we are as screwed as the best of them. Unadulterated global capitalism is being exposed for what it is - a three card trick.

No, because even if you back 20 or 30 years and start from there, long before the era of infamous "light touch regulation", capitalism has STILL delivered much higher standards of living than any other system.

[hiding behind a poster]

No system of government in all of human history has produced the spectacular misery and wealth gap between rich and poor that capitalism has.

The worlds 200 richest companies exceed the combined GDP of ALL but 10 of the worlds nations.

200 worlds riches people have more combined wealth than 40% of the worlds population.

The assets of the worlds 3 richest people exceed the combined GNP of the poorest 48 countires and their 600 million people.

Yeah it's a great system. Tell that to the thousands queueing at soup kitchens in the centre of capitalism the mighty USA!

The stalinist dictatorships certainly didn't work hence the reason why many socialists opposed them!

I'm not talking about a wealth gap, I'm talking about the increase in people's standard of living. There are always people looking for soup kitchens in any system of government. Now, what other system has produced anything like the overall increases in people's living standards, life expectancy, and any other measure you care to name, other than capitalism?

[Mr. Bumble]

No, because even if you back 20 or 30 years and start from there, long before the era of infamous "light touch regulation", capitalism has STILL delivered much higher standards of living than any other system.

If you replace the word 'capitalism' with meritocracy then I would agree. Capitalism's core driver is greed and its mask is slipping. All countries that most embraced capitalism are now the countries that are most bankrupt and indebted.

[toxic avenger]

I'm a socialist but I'm a Catholic first - the dignity and human rights of the individual trump everything else.

As to the notion that workers controlling production is unworkable - it works all the time in co-ops all over the continent...

[Humbert]

Have you been in a coma for the past three years?

Yeah, that's the last 3 years, but the previous sixty were pretty cool compared to the nonsense that went on behind the Iron Curtain or theme parks like Russia, Cuba, North Korea, China etc etc.

[toxic avenger]

Yeah, that's the last 3 years, but the previous sixty were pretty cool compared to the nonsense that went on behind the Iron Curtain or theme parks like Russia, Cuba, North Korea, China etc etc.

None of which bore any relation to socialism.