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  1. #1
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is offline
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    Humans are inherently good.

    Jean-Jacques Rousseau believed that man is naturally good and that vice and error are alien to him. This creates a conflict between “nature” and “artifice” in attitudes to society, education and religion. In Emile or On Education he explores these notions in great depth.

    The book explores "how, in particular, the individual might retain what Rousseau saw as innate human goodness while remaining part of a corrupting collectivity"

    Rousseau's ideas were taken up by the leaders of the French revolution and were instrumental to Kant and Marx.

    In more modern times we have the (perhaps lesser) figures of Maslow and Carl Rogers who in the mid twentieth century returned to this topic after the World Wars. Rogers said

    "the potential of the individual human is unique, and we are meant to develop in different ways according to our personality. Rogers believed that people are inherently good and creative."

    Maslow was plainer saying:

    The fact is that people are good, Give people affection and security, and they will give affection and be secure in their feelings and their behavior.
    Moving forward to the early 21st century Yuval Noah Harari in his book Homo Deus catalogues all the good humans have achieved essentially taming three of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.,.. and death is on the list...... his work is much
    more sanguine, for all the material good we do, we appear to do little with it?
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-harari-review

    So is humanity innately good?

    What could we do to demonstrate this to Yuval Noah Harari's, or our own, satisfaction.
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  2. #2
    mr_anderson mr_anderson is offline
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    And some are inherently sociopaths.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/arti...spot-sociopath
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  3. #3
    roc_ roc_ is offline
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    A favourite quote of mine that I think gets to the nub of it is this:

    "... Love and violence, properly speaking, are polar opposites. Love lets the other be, but with affection and concern. Violence attempts to constrain the other's freedom, to force him to act in the way we desire, but with ultimate lack of concern, with indifference to the other's own existence or destiny. We are effectively destroying ourselves by violence masquerading as love..."

    A good example is our attitudes to the travelers. - We have no affection and concern for them. We try to force them to be a certain way. We tell each other that this is for their own good, or the good of "the children".

    But it is violence masquerading as love. And we see the result of it.

    Human beings reciprocate what they are subjected to. We see the same dynamic as we see with our relationship with travelers in all the world's social relations. Most of the Western world are half-crazed creatures more or less adjusted to a mad world. This passes as normality in our present age.
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  4. #4
    Hunter-Gatherer Hunter-Gatherer is offline

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    Darwin etc ... selfish gene. I am good to my kids cos it's obvious. I do teamwork with society cos the alternative is living in the mountains in a log cabin. But on a desert island I may commit a heneous crime to eat the last banana
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  5. #5
    ShoutingIsLeadership ShoutingIsLeadership is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    A favourite quote of mine that I think gets to the nub of it is this:

    [I]"... Love and violence, properly speaking, are polar opposites. Love lets the other be, but with affection and concern. Violence attempts to constrain the other's freedom, to force him to act in the way we desire, but with ultimate lack of concern, with indifference to the other's own existence or destiny. We are effectively destroying ourselves by violence masquerading as love..."[/I]

    A good example is our attitudes to the travelers. - We have no affection and concern for them. We try to force them to be a certain way. We tell each other that this is for their own good, or the good of "the children".

    But it is violence masquerading as love. And we see the result of it.

    Human beings reciprocate what they are subjected to. We see the same dynamic as we see with our relationship with travelers in all the world's social relations. Most of the Western world are half-crazed creatures more or less adjusted to a mad world. This passes as normality in our present age.
    Another example would be Israeli treatment of Palestinians, eh?
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  6. #6
    Franzoni Franzoni is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter-Gatherer View Post
    Darwin etc ... selfish gene. I am good to my kids cos it's obvious. I do teamwork with society cos the alternative is living in the mountains in a log cabin. But on a desert island I may commit a heneous crime to eat the last banana
    Better to let the other fella fatten up by eating the last banana then eat him no....?
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  7. #7
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is offline
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    Whither original sin?
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  8. #8
    razorblade razorblade is offline

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    I wouldn't be sure about that some are definitely more psychotic than others even if they had the same sort of upbringing that's just a fact of life.
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  9. #9
    roc_ roc_ is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShoutingIsLeadership View Post
    Another example would be Israeli treatment of Palestinians, eh?
    No, it wouldn't. They are no doubt treated harshly with no masquerade.

    It is a brutal occupation no doubt. There is a lot of things to consider that underlie why it is so.

    Maybe keep that stuff for the relevant threads?
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  10. #10
    dizillusioned dizillusioned is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franzoni View Post
    Better to let the other fella fatten up by eating the last banana then eat him no....?
    Err........
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