Lenihan re. Burton: "The deputy has now accused me of corruption.... How dare she!"

[SPN]

SPN - you are deliberately ignoring the points myself and Libero have made about the 5,700,000,000 Anglo subordinated bond holders being baled out by FF.

This is crony capitalism - getting friends of FF off the hook and lumbering you and me with the liability.

You either are incapable of understanding or a FF apologist.
Your choice - same difference.

You can choose to interpret my statements in that skewed way, or you can take on board the very important truths I am highlighting.

The issue of how the Bondholders get treated is for the future. The issue that we prevented a collapse in the value of the Balance Sheets of the other Banks takes primacy as far as I am concerned.

Whilst there is merit in your observation about "crony capitalism", the upper echelons of FG and Labour also mix in these circles and suffer from the same form of group-think.

[droghedasouth]

You can choose to interpret my statements in that skewed way, or you can take on board the very important truths I am highlighting.

The issue of how the Bondholders get treated is for the future. The issue that we prevented a collapse in the value of the Balance Sheets of the other Banks takes primacy as far as I am concerned.

Whilst there is merit in your observation about "crony capitalism", the upper echelons of FG and Labour also mix in these circles and suffer from the same form of group-think.

You are either stupid enough to be Minister for Finance in a Clowen administration, or an apologist spreading distraction.

Bailing out the 5,700,000,000 of subordinated bonds in Anglo-Irish by giving an undertaking to run it as a going concern has nothing to do with AIB or BoI, except of course that their subordinated bond-holders can sleep easy in their beds at night confident that they wont lose a penny either.

FG called for Anglo to be run down in an orderly way and so you cannot accuse them of "crony capitalism" by favouring either Anglo shareholders or Anglo sub-ordinated bondholders.

FF and the GP have however chosen with their eyes wide open to bail-out these well heeled people 4 months after September 29th.

You seem to have taken over from Tonys is spreading distracting nonsense. I am going to mark you just as agressively as I marked Tonys because the last thing we need is someone whose sole mission is to distract from the ugly truth.

[SPN]

You seem to have taken over from Tonys is spreading distracting nonsense. I am going to mark you just as agressively as I marked Tonys because the last thing we need is someone whose sole mission is to distract from the ugly truth.

LOL!

I love the irony!

I have no brief for Fianna Fail, and my track record clearly shows this. I have also been very consistent over the last five years in getting stuck into people who distract from the truth.

As I said: There is merit in some of what you say, but your conclusions are flawed.


Time will tell whether what was done, and the way it was done was correct.

[Libero]

You are either stupid enough to be Minister for Finance in a Clowen administration, or an apologist spreading distraction.

Bailing out the 5,700,000,000 of subordinated bonds in Anglo-Irish by giving an undertaking to run it as a going concern has nothing to do with AIB or BoI, except of course that their subordinated bond-holders can sleep easy in their beds at night confident that they wont lose a penny either.

FG called for Anglo to be run down in an orderly way and so you cannot accuse them of "crony capitalism" by favouring either Anglo shareholders or Anglo sub-ordinated bondholders.

FF and the GP have however chosen with their eyes wide open to bail-out these well heeled people 4 months after September 29th.

You seem to have taken over from Tonys is spreading distracting nonsense. I am going to mark you just as agressively as I marked Tonys because the last thing we need is someone whose sole mission is to distract from the ugly truth.

The defenders of this government are stuck in a time warp.

They still think they can use neat and simple talking points to bat away criticism and keep the public confused or disinterested (either will do).

And it better times, it worked a treat. After all, how many ordinary people (not political nerds like us) have the time to read up on bank capital adequacy or other technical areas like that. And even if decisions were based on cronyism, who cares?

But times have changed. People are now sitting up and paying attention and reading more. In addition, the government have clearly lost the support of Irish business and much of the commentariat and the authority that comes with that.

The same ould spin won't work, SPN. Instead of taking the p1ss and saying the banks weren't bailed out, try doing a Fine Gael and explain why it was the least worst option. yes, it will require more than one sentence but give the people of Ireland some credit.

[cakeordeath]

Joan's tones are many things - but dulcet they ain't.

For sure. If she could pin him down on one evidence based point of irrefutable fact....... then 'politely' ask for a 'yes' or 'no'.

Her accusations are too broad. Her emotions or passions take over. It's understandable but it wont get confessions.

[droghedasouth]

Libero - spot on.

All my friends eyes glaze over when I say subordinated bonds and that is what SPN is relying on.

It just happens that we bailed out the Anglo boys to the tune of about EUR 1,300 for every man woman and child in the country, the interest on which would have paid for medical cards for all the over 70's twice over.

[Libero]

All my friends eyes glaze over when I say subordinated bonds and that is what SPN is relying on.

The real problem for the government is that the critical message is now getting through.

Cowen and the likes of Noel Whelan and other apologists would have us believe that the government is unpopular because it is making "tough decisions". And of course there's some truth in that.

But the bigger picture is that while your friends still haven't woken up to the ins-and-outs of the Anglo bailout, they appreciate that some very questionable decisions were taken for the ostensible benefit of the economy but also for very good friends of Fianna Fáil.

Burton can be expected to press that button again and again. Mind you, I agree with the criticism that she should also pin down Lenihan in a more forensic way, even if its only for the benefit of elite opinion. The disdain of informed people also trickles down to the masses.

Anyway, SPN and anybody else is on a hiding to nothing if they think the old methods of deflection are still working. And Lenihan is fooling nobody if he puffs out his chest and denies corruption when nobody has accused him of that.

[dresden8]

I have no brief for Fianna Fail, and my track record clearly shows this.

Yes, that's true. You're a Green Party hack, which at the moment is totally un-related to FF and the Government pissing the taxpayers money down the drain.

Because as we all know, anythin FF does is nothing to do with the Green Party as they have their own manifesto to push through and will support FF no matter what, but it's nothing to do with them, but they'll support it.

And other bollixology.

Top marks for trying, but you're talking crap.