Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill

[clonycavanman]

The Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill is making (or has made) it's way through the committee stage. it will replace five existing Acts and quite a bit of other legislation. It will have a major influence upon the kind of Ireland experienced by tourists, the dilemmas faced by our police/courts/public services/legal aid budget, and conceiveably, the type of economy we pass on to the next generation (low skills/high skills; black economy/visible economy).
For the Irish over the past ten years the immigration story has been a steep learning curve. Our experience of the UK (common travel area, mutually recognised voting rights) was a poor preparation for a world of cut-price flights, sweepingly worded international protocols, and EU directives couched in terms not previously used in our legislation. Switzerland (an open economy which has borders with five other countries) would have been a better model for us to follow; but, admit it , we knew dang-all about Switzerland.
How well have we learned the lessons?
The IRP bill is the distilled wisdom of a highly educated nation after 36 years of enlightened engagement with the EU and EEA,and can be found at Houses of the Oireachtas, Parliament of Ireland - Tithe an Oireachtais 2008 Bills and Amendments.
I cannot say it is easy to read. To the original 140 pages has been added (chiefly by just three TDs; Pat Rabitte, Denis Naughten and Finian McGrath) more than 707 amendments covering 96 pages.
Have Rabitte, Naughten and McGrath constructed a master-stroke, or an own-goal? What will be the likely consequences of this Bill after some years of operation?
Have a look and post your view.

[Mr.De-Regulation]

I say boo to threads like these. Explain to us what it is about.

[Catalpa]

The Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill is making (or has made) it's way through the committee stage. it will replace five existing Acts and quite a bit of other legislation. It will have a major influence upon the kind of Ireland experienced by tourists, the dilemmas faced by our police/courts/public services/legal aid budget, and conceiveably, the type of economy we pass on to the next generation (low skills/high skills; black economy/visible economy).
For the Irish over the past ten years the immigration story has been a steep learning curve. Our experience of the UK (common travel area, mutually recognised voting rights) was a poor preparation for a world of cut-price flights, sweepingly worded international protocols, and EU directives couched in terms not previously used in our legislation. Switzerland (an open economy which has borders with five other countries) would have been a better model for us to follow; but, admit it , we knew dang-all about Switzerland.
How well have we learned the lessons?
The IRP bill is the distilled wisdom of a highly educated nation after 36 years of enlightened engagement with the EU and EEA,and can be found at Houses of the Oireachtas, Parliament of Ireland - Tithe an Oireachtais 2008 Bills and Amendments.
I cannot say it is easy to read. To the original 140 pages has been added (chiefly by just three TDs; Pat Rabitte, Denis Naughten and Finian McGrath) more than 707 amendments covering 96 pages.
Have Rabitte, Naughten and McGrath constructed a master-stroke, or an own-goal? What will be the likely consequences of this Bill after some years of operation?
Have a look and post your view.

What's your angle then?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought only a few of those amendments had been accepted though I know Rabbitte in particular wanted the provisions allowing Garda discretion on whether to grant temporary visas to asylum seekers claiming to have been trafficked to be replaced with blanket temp-visas for anyone making such claims - something rejected by DA as potentially encouraging false claims to get the visas. You have not posted a direct link to this bill, and I think you are confusing amendments proposed by this liberal triumverate with ones the govt will accept. I am aware that the govt accepted an amendment renaming expulsion-ordes 'removal orders' instead. The IRP includes automatic deportations during judicial-reviews unless the judge specifically injuncts them, as well as allowing judges to award costs against lawyers for vexatious asylum appeals. The thrust of the Bill is welcome. Minister plz push it through, pronto. It's been waiting long enough. Tell the ICI, IRC and RAR where to go.

[Clanrickard]

That the likes of Finian McGrath would have any sway over a piece of legislation like this worries me.

[seabhcan]

The Minister shall refuse to grant a visa application if he or
she considers its refusal to be justified.
(10) There are included in the reasons why the Minister may con- 40
sider a refusal justified the following: that in his or her opinion—

...

(j) the applicant—
(i) intends to travel (whether immediately or not) to
35 Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands
or the Isle of Man, and
(ii) would not qualify for admission to that place if he or
she arrived there from a place other than the State;

I see this nonsense policing of intentions continues.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I see this nonsense policing of intentions continues.

It isn't nonsense. If we want to clamp down on international trafficking we need other countries to do the same. We have to ensure the integrity of the visa-system and so do they, and in that context we all need to step up to the plate and implement tighter visa-controls.

[seabhcan]

It isn't nonsense. If we want to clamp down on international trafficking we need other countries to do the same. We have to ensure the integrity of the visa-system and so do they, and in that context we all need to step up to the plate and implement tighter visa-controls.

Why don't we expel people from ireland if they intend to travel to France?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Why don't we expel people from ireland if they intend to travel to France?

Indeed. Send them outside of the EU if they came here illegally. However I think you are missing the point. If they are here illegally they won't get an Irish passport and should be removed anyway.

[seabhcan]

Indeed. Send them outside of the EU if they came here illegally. However I think you are missing the point. If they are here illegally they won't get an Irish passport and should be removed anyway.

You are missing the point. The act empowers the Gardai to deport someone who is in Ireland legally with an Irish visa if that Garda suspects that legal immigrant intends to break the immigration law of the UK.

The person arrives to Ireland with an Irish visa and is deported in case they might like to go to the UK at some future time.

Evidence? The act demands none.

Its madness.