Register to Comment
Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 97
Like Tree24Likes
  1. #1
    sic transit sic transit is offline
    sic transit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    23,234

    The Fall and Fall of New Politics

    There's always a sharp intake of breath when a politician presents a new vision or claims to have reinvented the wheel through new politics. What has been clear since our last visit to the polls is that there is a new reality, at least for now.

    How well that is actually working is open to debate and there is an increasing sense that it really doesn't work at all. There is undeniably something democratic about legislative proposals coming from outside the government. What may not be in our best interest is that such proposals could become law by pure weight of numbers, with or without the aid of selective abstention. Add to this the matter of a not wholly stable government and we are being ill-served by those we voted for.

    As much as politicians may mutter new politics it's all little more than self-serving jostling for the forthcoming election, quite probably upon us in 2017.

    In FG there's an anxiety about the leadership and how they can deal with that in advance of such an election. They seem weary of the arrangement and even less convinced of the merit of it now. Their approach to the junior elements of government is to grin and bear it. Even so they seem to be driven by the need to do the right thing and they remain the only party who were serious about government.

    FF are getting ready for an election and working on strategies to weaken FG and become the biggest party. At this stage it appears they are using their in but not in status to allow all sorts of votes and proposals to defeat the government.

    SF have picked up where they left off and are rapidly turning into their own tribute band. For a party so intent on new politics they have not been able to figure out that antagonism really does little except give a superficial impression they are doing something.

    The left have come more to the fore and with alliances we get to hear a whole lot more of their utopian demands and the man in pink and his indignation about alleged financial wrongdoings.

    The SDs have turned into a whatever notion Murphy or Donnelly want to be heard on and Labour just want to be angry and relevant.

    Finally the Independents in government have mostly lived up to the worst fears of those who have to work with them and those who told us so long before deals were done. Their inability to grasp the concept of collective responsibility just adds to the sense of a political system in disarray.

    An election tomorrow would quite probably deliver a similar set of results and the same type of political posturing . The real pity is that politicians don't get that the old ways serve nobody.
    Last edited by sic transit; 16th July 2016 at 12:53 PM.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #2
    hollandia hollandia is offline
    hollandia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    19,476

    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    There's always a sharp intake of breath when a politician presents a new vision or claims to have reinvented the wheel through new politics. What has been clear since our last visit to the polls is that there is a new reality, at least for now.

    How well that is actually working is open to debate and there is an increasing sense that it really doesn't work at all. There is undeniably something democratic about legislative proposals coming from outside the government. What may not be in our best interest is that such proposals could become law by pure weight of numbers, with or without the aid of selective abstention. Add to this the matter of a not wholly stable government and we are being ill-served by those we voted for.

    As much as politicians may mutter new politics it's all little more than self-serving jostling for the forthcoming election, quite probably upon us in 2017.

    In FG there's an anxiety about the leadership and how they can deal with that in advance of such an election. They seem weary of the arrangement and even less convinced of the merit of it now. Their approach to the junior elements of government is to grin and bear it. Even so they seem to be driven by the need to do the right thing and they remain the only party who were serious about government.

    FF are getting ready for an election and working on strategies to weaken FG and become the biggest party. At this stage it appears they are using their in but not in status to allow all sorts of votes and proposals to defeat the government.

    SF have picked up where they left off and are rapidly turning into their own tribute band. For a party so intent on new politics they have not been able to figure out that antagonism really does little except give a superficial impression they are doing something.

    The left have come more to the fore and with alliances we get to hear a whole lot more of their utopian demands and the man in pink and his indignation about alleged financial wrongdoings.

    The SDs have turned into a whatever notion Murphy or Donnelly want to be heard on and Labour just want to be angry and relevant.

    Finally the Independents in government have mostly lived up to the worst fears of those who have to work with them and those who told us so long before deals were done. Their inability to grasp the concept of collective responsibility just adds to the sense of a political system in disarray.

    An election tomorrow would quite probably deliver a similar set of results and the same type of political posturing . The real pity is that politicians don't get that the old ways serve nobody.
    Translation: FG good, everyone else bad.

    Of course in reality it's never that simple. In each legislature in the history of the state, we have seen good legislation avoided in favour of bad (and to be fair vice versa) purely because the the proposal came from opposition. This new set up does represent a change because legislation can be passed with the support of two of the the big parties. This in effect means that no one can loose the run of themselves. Give it a chance. With Enda gone shortly, FG (depending on who they choose) can actually take control of the situation by building consensus amongst the three big parties. Or dealing wit SF on a case by case basis would take back the whip hand from FF.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #3
    wombat wombat is offline
    wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35,221

    The main difference between New politics and Old politics is that a large number of the New politicians are not interested in taking part in a govt whereas it was the main ambition of most Old politicians.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #4
    Plebian Plebian is offline
    Plebian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9,510

    *snigger*

    The Electorate passed judgement on FG in the GE, Kenny who drove FG down to 25% desperately wanted to cling onto power at all costs and no one in FG was prepared to take out the Kenny trash.

    Result, ye are where ye are and ye deserve to be there.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #5
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    13,481
    Twitter
    @

    I see nothing new about Irish politics with the possible exception of a fine display of truth to power by SD and Independents.

    As for the current government it is just an obviously hacked together example of old politics.

    I'll call new politics in Ireland when neither FF nor FG are in power at any given time.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #6
    sic transit sic transit is offline
    sic transit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    23,234

    Quote Originally Posted by hollandia View Post
    Translation: FG good, everyone else bad.

    Of course in reality it's never that simple. In each legislature in the history of the state, we have seen good legislation avoided in favour of bad (and to be fair vice versa) purely because the the proposal came from opposition. This new set up does represent a change because legislation can be passed with the support of two of the the big parties. This in effect means that no one can loose the run of themselves. Give it a chance. With Enda gone shortly, FG (depending on who they choose) can actually take control of the situation by building consensus amongst the three big parties. Or dealing wit SF on a case by case basis would take back the whip hand from FF.
    Nope it's actually everyone is, but you feel free to parse it as you choose. This a very poor Dail, where not one of the parties has done anything bar get ready for round two. They seem to imagine a different outcome and have no strategy to deal with a repeat set of numbers.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #7
    tonic tonic is offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    46,098

    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    There's always a sharp intake of breath when a politician presents a new vision or claims to have reinvented the wheel through new politics. What has been clear since our last visit to the polls is that there is a new reality, at least for now.

    How well that is actually working is open to debate and there is an increasing sense that it really doesn't work at all. There is undeniably something democratic about legislative proposals coming from outside the government. What may not be in our best interest is that such proposals could become law by pure weight of numbers, with or without the aid of selective abstention. Add to this the matter of a not wholly stable government and we are being ill-served by those we voted for.

    As much as politicians may mutter new politics it's all little more than self-serving jostling for the forthcoming election, quite probably upon us in 2017.

    In FG there's an anxiety about the leadership and how they can deal with that in advance of such an election. They seem weary of the arrangement and even less convinced of the merit of it now. Their approach to the junior elements of government is to grin and bear it. Even so they seem to be driven by the need to do the right thing and they remain the only party who were serious about government.

    FF are getting ready for an election and working on strategies to weaken FG and become the biggest party. At this stage it appears they are using their in but not in status to allow all sorts of votes and proposals to defeat the government.

    SF have picked up where they left off and are rapidly turning into their own tribute band. For a party so intent on new politics they have not been able to figure out that antagonism really does little except give a superficial impression they are doing something.

    The left have come more to the fore and with alliances we get to hear a whole lot more of their utopian demands and the man in pink and his indignation about alleged financial wrongdoings.

    The SDs have turned into a whatever notion Murphy or Donnelly want to be heard on and Labour just want to be angry and relevant.

    Finally the Independents in government have mostly lived up to the worst fears of those who have to work with them and those who told us so long before deals were done. Their inability to grasp the concept of collective responsibility just adds to the sense of a political system in disarray.

    An election tomorrow would quite probably deliver a similar set of results and the same type of political posturing . The real pity is that politicians don't get that the old ways serve nobody.
    The "new" politics is doing what they're slowly learning to do, work with (some) of the other politicians outside of government to bring policies forward.
    It's far from perfect and is in fact a backward step in some respects, but for the moment, it is what it is and we are where we are, make the best of it.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #8
    GabhaDubh GabhaDubh is offline
    GabhaDubh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,671

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    I see nothing new about Irish politics with the possible exception of a fine display of truth to power by SD and Independents.

    As for the current government it is just an obviously hacked together example of old politics.

    I'll call new politics in Ireland when neither FF nor FG are in power at any given time.
    The new politics is the way the government survives. The existing arrangement is a Coalition Government, it maybe a Coalition by default but, it is still a Coalition and having FG & FG arm in arm is something I thought I would never see.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #9
    Eoin Coir Eoin Coir is offline
    Eoin Coir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    15,402

    ass licking article by Fiach Kelly in todays Ir Times

    Interview: Micheál Martin on restoring his party
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #10
    sic transit sic transit is offline
    sic transit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    23,234

    Quote Originally Posted by tonic View Post
    The "new" politics is doing what they're slowly learning to do, work with (some) of the other politicians outside of government to bring policies forward.
    It's far from perfect and is in fact a backward step in some respects, but for the moment, it is what it is and we are where we are, make the best of it.
    If there was a genuine intention to do so on all sides sure but we don't see that, not even from within government. It's still far more about the usual playing to the gallery and making the right call on when we'll go to the polls again. I don't foresee a huge difference next time out although the makeup of key characters may well change.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment