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  1. #81
    shiel shiel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverLining View Post
    What are people really looking for in this thread ? Yet another right of centre party, of which Irish politics is already overcrowed ? A far right xenophobic fundamentalist cult ? Ireland is already far too right wing for its own good and continuing so is just so unhealthy. Is there real any point in voting in our farcical elections any more, when all we get is more puppets for the right wing establishment elites ?
    Well we could all stop voting and put in a dictator for life. It would save a lot of bother and argument. We could just doff the cap.

    The problem is that we doffed the cap to some semi-permanent people in the Celtic tiger period and it did not end up well.
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  2. #82
    Telemachus Telemachus is offline
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    Speaking in open about real things that matter died out a long time ago in most western Europeans countries. Things like the coming pension crisis, migration issues, putting in place real measures to solve the banking crisis and talking about what we would like our society to be actually like in the future are not discussed. Instead we have irrelevant issues like dress-codes, gender quotas, housing charge and voting age discussions, stuff that in the end is largely irrelevant to the big picture.

    We have a generation of Manager TDs who “manage” their electorate by tailoring their message to fit the broadest group possible. Each party we can see has their assigned slice of the electorate to manage, elections are mostly about minor jostling for position. TDs become simply herders of farm animals. They themselves in turn are herded by the tastes of the mainstream media and the party whips. Any radical thinking results in a hiding in the papers or within the party gang for any TD who steps outside the guidelines of what is acceptable.

    Even if Enda Kenny was capable of real leadership to reform the system would he be even allowed to do so ?
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  3. #83
    Radix Radix is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by elliebee View Post
    The right to open and frank discussion has been removed from the Irish people by the political establishment supported entirely by the media.

    People are afraid to open their mouths now for fear of being ridiculed and ostracised. What we really need is one good leader and then the poo will hit the fan!!
    Cometh the moment Elliebee....

    What we had was a form of sociopolitical laziness; we gave respect to people who didn't earn it. We voted like sheep along party lines, parties which had very few features which distinguished them from each other, apart from the number of 'F's in their name.

    The Irish gained their right to self determination through 'sheer bloody murder', to quote Collins, and before the very first centenary of this war is commemorated, we managed to lose that right through sheer corruption and greed.

    Will we change our ways?

    Time will tell, but the way we do things cannot remain the same...
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  4. #84
    gombeennation gombeennation is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanieFitz View Post
    i disagree with all of the above with the exception of the last sentence.
    do you think bertie cares about what people think?
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  5. #85
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post
    Cometh the moment Elliebee....

    What we had was a form of sociopolitical laziness; we gave respect to people who didn't earn it.
    Jaysus - I never give anyone any respect until I have a bit of a clue what they're about...

    I'll treat them in a civil manner alright, but never respect them until they've earned it...

    Can't understand automatic subservience myself... and I'm completely flummoxed by the 'respect' given to cute hoors generally...
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  6. #86
    shiel shiel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post
    Cometh the moment Elliebee....

    What we had was a form of sociopolitical laziness; we gave respect to people who didn't earn it. We voted like sheep along party lines, parties which had very few features which distinguished them from each other, apart from the number of 'F's in their name.

    The Irish gained their right to self determination through 'sheer bloody murder', to quote Collins, and before the very first centenary of this war is commemorated, we managed to lose that right through sheer corruption and greed.

    Will we change our ways?

    Time will tell, but the way we do things cannot remain the same...
    The one good leader syndrome was not a success anytime it was tried.

    Stalin and Hitler reduced Europe to rubble.

    As someone says muddling through a bankrupt country is better.
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  7. #87
    gombeennation gombeennation is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    Do not be adopting an elitist attitude to Paddy.

    The Germans believed Goeballs when he got control of the media. That was group think on a grand scale.

    It is part of the human predicament.

    It is the reason why we need the free press to challenge the powerful in society.

    It is the reason why we need the media to be independent.

    They were not independent during the Celtic tiger period. We are all paying for that failure now.
    how can one not take an elitist attitude to paddy? he begs for it.

    goeballs didnt have the internet to contend with.
    the property pin is a site around for years - telling anyone who would listen the truth about houses in ireland.
    most paddys didnt want to know.
    why not? because it was easier to believe that there would be free money forever.
    thats a paddy think.

    we do have independant media. you are reading it right now.
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  8. #88
    SeanieFitz SeanieFitz is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gombeennation View Post
    do you think bertie cares about what people think?

    i was thinking you would focus on that point and not on the fact that politicans (and the majority of the populace imo) have no interest/concern about what is discussed here. one time they would have had but, regrettably, no longer!

    i have never met Bert so i have no idea what he thinks about, what concerns him, his opinion on his political legacy. do you?
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  9. #89
    Irish Citizens Party Irish Citizens Party is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franzoni View Post
    Yeah i replied on the thread to that man who's setting that new party up to see if there is anything happening in the Dublin area...i would be interested in having a chat and seeing if anyone else were interested......i have zero experience of the political system but possibly have experience in other areas that might be of use....

    It's time to get off the bums folks if we want something different.....
    Thank you for mentioning the Irish Citizens Party -- I would be delighted to meet up with anyone in the Dublin area who would like to know more. My Mobile is 086 2433056 (already published).
    Sincerely
    Jim Connolly

    ps two national voluntary organisations I founded in the past 20 years are still going strong -- I'm equally serious about the need for a new party founded on fundamental humanitarian principals of equality and integrity in public life.
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  10. #90
    Humbert Humbert is offline
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    It seems to me that many feel that the escape routes are closed to the left and to the right - both options were tried in the 1930s and both led to war - and they're waiting for another way out.

    Are they being forced into the centre by their own good sense to sort the thing out laboriously and tediously but peacefully and democratically - hence the absence of any new force apart perhaps from a hardening up of the left/right split which itself is pretty tame stuff at this stage.

    Personally I know a lot of people who are struggling but none who are starving or homeless from the current depression. It's all relative.

    For many people - on the dole, on civil service wages and in lots of businesses life has slowed down a bit but it hasn't come to a halt.

    So is there really a need for a new force spectrum-wise (ie L/R) or is it just that the current mob need to actually do what they said they'd do, which is carry out a centre-right reform agenda which large parts of the electorate show every sign of resisting if the reform requires some sacrifice from them.

    Everyone kknows what needs to be done but if people refuse to be led you can't really blame the leaders.

    And wishing for a 'strong' leader is just code for wishing for a coercive leader.
    Last edited by Humbert; 22nd August 2012 at 03:58 PM.
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