Members of Political Parties are Incapable of Independent Thought. Discuss.

[ruserious]

Something I notice often on this site is that members of political parties almost always tow the party line. Whatever their party says, they will defend it to the death, even if the week previous, the party may have had the opposite view and the poster likewise. This is not a thread for making accusations against particular posters but it is obvious that some FG members who attacked FF for their budget policies last year now advocate such moves under FG/LAB.
It is this sort of blatent political Zombieism which contributes to where we are. But is it true of all party members? I have no problem whatsoever with people joining parties, but I don't like how they defend their party to the death even if they personally disagree but they would never say that!
I'll throw it to the forum.

Note. I am not making any accusations against any particular poster(s) so if some retaliate which I expect, let this be the warning.

[Boggle]

Something I notice often on this site is that members of political parties almost always tow the party line. Whatever their party says, they will defend it to the death, even if the week previous, the party may have had the opposite view and the poster likewise. This is not a thread for making accusations against particular posters but it is obvious that some FG members who attacked FF for their budget policies last year now advocate such moves under FG/LAB.
It is this sort of blatent political Zombieism which contributes to where we are. But is it true of all party members? I have no problem whatsoever with people joining parties, but I don't like how they defend their party to the death even if they personally disagree but they would never say that!
I'll throw it to the forum.

Note. I am not making any accusations against any particular poster(s) so if some retaliate which I expect, let this be the warning.

If you want to get power, you need to move up within your party.

If you want to move up within your party, you obey the party line.

No room for independent thought in irish politics.

[Spanner Island]

It's one of the major flaws of party politics.

They have independent thoughts alright. They just can't or won't air them publicly because they have to tow the party line - which is understandable enough.

If they all said what they really thought, there'd either be too many small parties with none of them big enough to make any impact, or there'd be no parties at all.

The left in Ireland is a good example of this. They can't get their sh!t together at all.


Anyway, towing the party line is one of the reasons I would be very very careful about joining any party.

It would have to be very close to what I believe and be full of members that thought likewise.


Swings and roundabouts.

[Spanner Island]

If you want to get power, you need to move up within your party.

If you want to move up within your party, you obey the party line.

No room for independent thought in irish politics.

Stephen Donnelly is doing well IMO.... and a lot better than the other high profile independent planks during the election, Mick Wallace and Ming Flanagan in particular...

Donnelly talks sense and tells it like it is without any bullsh!t.

[ruserious]

Ok, I'm also talking about ordinary members.

[southwestkerry]

I dont always follow the party line. I was and still am dead set against any new EU referendum. Dont follow through with cuts to welfare or agree with an new FU [fiscal union] Ok so 1 and 3 are the same but heck I just setting out my stall.

[TommyO'Brien]

I can only answer for myself. As some who was in Fine Gael for years the party learnt that I am most definitely capable of independent thought. They know from experience I am not a yes man and will say exactly what I think to everyone from the leader down. I once sat on a body in it which planned to issue a press release saying it had unanimously endorsed a particular policy. I disagreed and voted against. No amount of pressure and plamasing would make me change my mind. I disagreed on a particular decision taken recently and let people in the party know that. I never defend anything on here that the party does and which I disagree with and have gotten into trouble for things I wrote here.

I won't pretend, for example, to be satisfied with the performance of the government. I have told ministers that directly.

I know a lot of others in FG, and to be honest in other parties too, who are very much independent thinkers and who on national executives and in parliamentary parties will not pull their punches in expressing their views.

[myksav]

Something I notice often on this site is that members of political parties almost always tow the party line. Whatever their party says, they will defend it to the death, even if the week previous, the party may have had the opposite view and the poster likewise. This is not a thread for making accusations against particular posters but it is obvious that some FG members who attacked FF for their budget policies last year now advocate such moves under FG/LAB.
It is this sort of blatent political Zombieism which contributes to where we are. But is it true of all party members? I have no problem whatsoever with people joining parties, but I don't like how they defend their party to the death even if they personally disagree but they would never say that!
I'll throw it to the forum.

Note. I am not making any accusations against any particular poster(s) so if some retaliate which I expect, let this be the warning.

Members? Yes, on the whole. Not so much among supporters who aren't members of the Party.

The concept of Party loyalty above personal opinions follows a religious-like pattern. There's a strong belief that their Party is the best one and the one that is always correct. It substitutes for belief in oneself which is harder to maintain.

The smallest unit I have loyalty toward is the Nation/State, and that is a reserved loyalty. I reserve the right to criticise the Nation/State when the Nation/State is in the wrong.
I hold no loyalty to the Government, they are OUR servants.
I hold no loyalty to any political Party, they are the servitures of the above servants.

I prefer to look at issues of politics and State with a less baggaged outlook. Or at least on an equal footing.

[damus]

The stifling of independent thought is not unique to the body politics....see how you get on trying to go against the grain in most workplaces and even local communities!

[Radix]

We are moving from an era where the sheeple just did what they were told, to one where they are thinking for themselves and acting accordingly. Notre Dame Nulty is an example of a newer breed of elected representatives who won't toe the party line even when his cap is still swinging on the back of the front door of Leinster House.

Organised politics eventually organised itself into chaotic corruption, as it left basic principles of respect for authentic freedom behind. It is in the process of morphing from monotonous chiming off the same hymn sheet, to a choral cacaphony of all sorts of voices, all in a strange way looking for the truth.

The lunatics are having to take over their asylum, necessatated because of the bad leadership of the crew who fell asleep at the tiller.