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About LinkBacksIt would be nice to believe that, but our track record in self-regulation is a bit flakey!Originally Posted by Jayuu
Abolish it
Reform it
Status Quo
It would be nice to believe that, but our track record in self-regulation is a bit flakey!
We will be abolishing the actual Seanad not the wonderful fantasy version in your head that was never delivered. Times up.
With a few wonderful exceptions the members are simply political hacks on the take. Why elect another bunch of them to interfere with reform? Abolish and then look at the whole system. A second chamber could be considered but it would be so unlike the current one that there is no point in retaining it.
I agree. However what we need in this country is more national politicians who are not bogged down by constituency work. If we elect let's say 20 senators (1/3 of the chamber) every 2 years based on one national constituency it will help take the parish pump out of Irish politics. The Seanad as it stands is a flawed institution. I believe the only answer is a directly elected chamber.
I agree that Seanad Eireann should be preserved but radically reformed. It is the only barrier to constitutional but rushed legislation (the President can only refer bills to the SC not veto them). But it needs to be directly elected on a similar basis to the US Senate (one-third every two years so that it doesn't turn into either a rival chamber or a mirror to Dail Eireann by virtue of equal simultaneous mandates). It should have the power to screen public-appointments comparable to the US Senate's powers in this respect. Had this happened, we might have avoided the FÁS, PPARS etc. scandals. The US Senate weeded out questionable Obama nominees such as Bill Richardson and the deluge of sleaza that has emanated from the Tribunals suggests we would do well to go down this road to avoid persons like Ray Burke coming to power in the future.
I am not an expert on these matters but as far as I know the government party bulldozed this legislation through both houses. This would not happen if my proposal was taken up, no party whip in Seanad.
BTW I am delighted that the President did not refuse to sign the bill because if she did and the Supreme Court found it to be constitutional then it could never be challenged again.
There's a lot to be said for the fellow who doesn't say it himself. -- Maurice Switzer
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I agree that it shouldn't be an end in itself. I would favour stronger oversight powers for the Dáil committees and perhaps some sort of independent commission which could scruntise the accounts and expenses of TDs.
But it would be a start. The Seanad is an irrelevancy in our political system. Actually given the centralisation of power in Ireland the Dáil is almost an irrelevancy (apart from electing the executive!).
If you believe a second chamber is needed then why do you support abolishing our current Seanad? If we abolish it we will be left with just the dysfunctional Dáil as our sole legislative body. People in last 24 hours have begun jumping on a dangerous bandwagon which misses the whole point. This debate should not be about getting rid of the Seanad. It should be about how we a reform it to make it the fully functioning democratic body that it should have been the first place. We all agree that as it stands it is a useless waste of space but the solution is radical reform not abolition.
It should not be merely a choice between the Seanad's abolition or it's retention. If for whatever reason people vote to keep the Seanad, what then, do we return to the same status quo as before?
I think the Seanad could be a force for the common good. Here are my suggestions:
1. Implement an open list system (The Seanad should be the first testing ground for broader electoral reform)
2. Female quaotas - This would enable women to get a start in electoral politics, whom otherwise would be disadvantaged by the current political culture with respect of Dail elections.
3. No more Taioseach appointments, (This gives excessive, almost presidential powers to the office of Taioseach)
4. Have the Seanad elections during the mid term cycle of Dail elections. This will enable voters to express dissatisfaction should governmental administration become despotic.
5. Aim to give political representation to minorities. Political representation should be extended to immigrants whom call Ireland home and have a right to be here. Not to do so will lead to resentment and potential conflict between communities.
6. Have the Seanad play a greater role in the coordination of the committe system. Tribunals have proven too lengthly and ineffective at holding institutions and corrupt practices to account.
7. Give the Seanad a greater role in analyzing EU legislation. Have it co-ordinate with other parliaments regarding the issuance of Yellow/Red card procedures as to halt/change undesirable legislation from the EP and Council.
8. Have the Seanad move around the country (Perhaps a forthnight of buisness each year to major capitals: Limerick, Galway, Cork) I have experienced a number of Oireachtas committee debates which were held for the first time outside of Leinster House. This will serve to copper-fasten inclusivity and participation of people and local govt.
9. Use the reformed Seanad to be the engine of future political reform. It should conclude an agreed reform agenda for the Dail over a period of two terms.
10. Finally, if it fails to deliver on the above. Then I would move that it should be abolished. First of all, I believe it should be given a chance however. There have been thirteen attempts at reform of the Seanad, all have been stillborn. I would like to see the Seanad as the fertile ground where new blood may enter the system instead of it being an old folks home for political dinosaurs.
Last edited by Sucker Punch; 3rd January 2011 at 02:08 PM.
The love of equality in a democracy, limits ambition to the sole desire, to the sole happiness, of doing greater services to our country than the rest of our fellow citizens - Montesquieu
I don't believe it's needed. But those who have a reformed version in mind could put forward their ideas just as easily without the current farce in place. More easily in fact because you wouldn't have a bunch of self-interested members blocking reform.
Yes and that needs reform and it is on that we should concentrate. You are saying reform the Seanad because the Dail is dysfunctional? Why not reform the Dail?If we abolish it we will be left with just the dysfunctional Dáil as our sole legislative body.
It's you who are missing the point. We have a bloated political class and we need a cull. This is the first step. Reform of the Dail is nextPeople in last 24 hours have begun jumping on a dangerous bandwagon which misses the whole point.
Reform of the Seanad is only ever brought up when abolition is on the agenda. And no party has reform proposalsThis debate should not be about getting rid of the Seanad. It should be about how we a reform it to make it the fully functioning democratic body that it should have been the first place.
The choice is abolition or the status quo. Which side are you on?We all agree that as it stands it is a useless waste of space but the solution is radical reform not abolition.
Polls is being taken here. Looks about even-stevens so far.
Mods, any chance we can have one of our own?
The love of equality in a democracy, limits ambition to the sole desire, to the sole happiness, of doing greater services to our country than the rest of our fellow citizens - Montesquieu
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