Ireland is not a Democracy. Change is therefore impossible.

[LeDroit]

Got to thinking about our 'system' today. I was considering how it could be reformed or reinvented when it suddenly hit me that Ireland is not actually a democracy.

The Presidency;
A citizen is not entitled to run for the presidency. You cannot get your name on the ballot paper unless a political party nominates you. Therefore the electorate only get a choice of what the establishment gives them. Thus, since the nomination process is rigged that's not a free and fair election. The People do not pick their President, the establishment does.

The Seanad;
Shooting fish in a barrel this one. The people do not get a vote. Only certain citizens are deemed worthy of voting, eg university graduates. Most senators are 'elected' by fellow politicians, eg councillors, and for some they don't even bother with the charade and the Taioseach just appoints them. So the Seanad is completely outside the control of the citizen. The establishment decides again.

The Taoiseach;
Is not elected by the people at all. Fellow TDs 'elect' him. The people have no choice on who their leader is. They just get to pick a guy who gets to choose on 'their' behalf. The only problem is that the TD can only become a TD with the gift of the establishment (see below), therefore the establishment decides who the Taoiseach is.

The Dail/TDs;
The only kind of democratic bit on the face of it. Theoretically any citizen can run for election to the Dail but in practice it costs money. If you are not already a TD or a selected candidate by an existing political party then you can't get state funding to finance that campaign. And you are not allowed to fundraise from within your own means or from within a small group of supporters as the establishment have set the rules so that there is an individual limit on the donation per person. Thus, new individuals or new parties cannot enter the fray. The establishment decides who is on the ballot paper with any realistic financial wherewithal to actually get elected. Certainly, it's so restrictive that a sufficiently large group of new candidates cannot be elected to challenge the establishments status quo. In addition, even if you do get elected you are not allowed to speak in the Dail unless the establishment affords you 'speaking rights'.

So, the Establishment decides who is a TD, Senator, President and Taoiseach. The People do not. We do not have a Democracy. Change is impossible.

[Newsy]

So, the Establishment decides who is a TD, Senator, President and Taoiseach. The People do not. We do not have a Democracy. Change is impossible.

That only stuck you, TODAY???

[Nipper]

A step on the path of enlightenment

[LeDroit]

That only stuck you, TODAY???

Yeah, I know. Apologies for my dimwittedness. But I'd say most people are like me, thinking that we are a democracy but not actually questioning the system because 'that's just the way it's always been'. I think it was when I examined all of the branches of govt that it just hit me. Unreal.

Maybe we could get UN election monitors to do a report?

[mary hinge]

Got to thinking about our 'system' today. I was considering how it could be reformed or reinvented when it suddenly hit me that Ireland is not actually a democracy.

The Presidency;
A citizen is not entitled to run for the presidency. You cannot get your name on the ballot paper unless a political party nominates you. Therefore the electorate only get a choice of what the establishment gives them. Thus, since the nomination process is rigged that's not a free and fair election. The People do not pick their President, the establishment does.

The Seanad;
Shooting fish in a barrel this one. The people do not get a vote. Only certain citizens are deemed worthy of voting, eg university graduates. Most senators are 'elected' by fellow politicians, eg councillors, and for some they don't even bother with the charade and the Taioseach just appoints them. So the Seanad is completely outside the control of the citizen. The establishment decides again.

The Taoiseach;
Is not elected by the people at all. Fellow TDs 'elect' him. The people have no choice on who their leader is. They just get to pick a guy who gets to choose on 'their' behalf. The only problem is that the TD can only become a TD with the gift of the establishment (see below), therefore the establishment decides who the Taoiseach is.

The Dail/TDs;
The only kind of democratic bit on the face of it. Theoretically any citizen can run for election to the Dail but in practice it costs money. If you are not already a TD or a selected candidate by an existing political party then you can't get state funding to finance that campaign. And you are not allowed to fundraise from within your own means or from within a small group of supporters as the establishment have set the rules so that there is an individual limit on the donation per person. Thus, new individuals or new parties cannot enter the fray. The establishment decides who is on the ballot paper with any realistic financial wherewithal to actually get elected. Certainly, it's so restrictive that a sufficiently large group of new candidates cannot be elected to challenge the establishments status quo. In addition, even if you do get elected you are not allowed to speak in the Dail unless the establishment affords you 'speaking rights'.

So, the Establishment decides who is a TD, Senator, President and Taoiseach. The People do not. We do not have a Democracy. Change is impossible.

very well put brother,i`d have to agree with all the points you make.... but change is possible......certainly not within our current system,but who knows what the future holds?.

i`d wager that within the next 5-10 years we`ll see things happen on this small island that you never thought possible.

[LeDroit]

very well put brother,i`d have to agree with all the points you make.... but change is possible......certainly not within our current system,but who knows what the future holds?.

i`d wager that within the next 5-10 years we`ll see things happen on this small island that you never thought possible.

You're suggesting an armed uprising or some such I presume. I can't see it happening. We're just not that passionate or rebellious as a group. Even 1916 was carried out by a tiny group with very little popular support. We are a peasant nation with a fairly submissive attitude overall. 25% of the population would still vote FF for God's sake!

[kerdasi amaq]

The real strenght of the "establishment" is the blind faith voting habit of certain parts of the electorate.

The Constitution is drafted so that all effective authority is concentrated in the Taoiseach's office.

Dana got to run for president without being backed by a political party.

[LeDroit]

The real strenght of the "establishment" is the blind faith voting habit of certain parts of the electorate.

The Constitution is drafted so that all effective authority is concentrated in the Taoiseach's office.

Dana got to run for president without being backed by a political party.

She was backed by councillors. It's the only way onto the ballot paper.

[Munnkeyman]

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]Good OP LeDroit,

Here's my definition;

A [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT]kleptocracy [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]by definition is a government or state in which those in power exploit national resources [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]and steal; rule by thieves.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT]A particracy [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]is a de facto form of government where the will of one or more political parties in power [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]dominates political life, not the will of individual politicians.[/FONT]

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT]A hegemony [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]other groups, regardless of the explicit consent of the latter.[/FONT] [/FONT]

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]So I believe I would be correct in saying that[/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]The correct definition of our state government would be a klepto – particratic, quasi - democratic hegemony with an unquantifiable degree of cronyism and a dose of nepotism for good measure.[/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]

[arcadeparade]

I agree with you completely.

You should read this: Parliament or Democracy? : The anarchist case against parliament

Its called parliament or democracy. It's about how parliament was only setup to give people the illusion of democracy, and how real change only comes through popular pressure which the power centres are forced to react too.

Its left wing, but I read it when I was a Milton Friedman fan too and it really opened my eyes.