Parliamentary Democracy

[pjoz]

Given the current state of flux in Irish political life it seems an appropriate moment to question the suitability of our current system…This thought has been prompted by the events unfolding within the Fine Gael party…According to the challengers of Enda the main reason lies in his failure to connect with the public, information obtained from opinion polls…these very same opinion polls Fianna Fail claim to ignore and claim irrelevant…who to believe? Fianna Fail maintain they have a mandate from the people that lasts circa two years more, yet opinion polls show consistently that this is not the case (17% latest)…This inherent flaw of our parliamentary democracy system is nothing new, Connolly wrote on the subject in 1900..his sentiments still hold and nothing has been done in the intervening period to enhance the democratic process…while he wrote of the British system at the time, as our model is largely based on it and his observations still hold validity…

“The cabinet formed out of the members of the party strongest numerically constitutes the government of the country and as such has full control of our destinies during its term of office. But the cabinet is not elected by the parliament, voted for by the people, nor chosen by its own party. The cabinet is chosen by the gentleman chosen by the sovereign as the leader of the strongest party. The gentleman so chosen after consultation with the Queen selects certain of his own followers and invests in them with certain positions and salaries, and so forms a cabinet. The cabinet controls the government and practically dictates the laws……

The powers of parliament are somewhat arbitrary and ill defined. Every general election is fought on one or two main issues, and on these alone………..but when parliament has received from the electorate its mandate on that one question it arrogates to itself the right to rule and decide on every other question without the slightest reference to the wishes of the electorate..

If parliament, elected to carry out the wishes of the electors on one question, chooses to act in a manner contrary to the wishes of the electors in a dozen other questions, the electors have no redress except to wait for another general election to give them the opportunity to return other gentlemen under similar conditions and with similar opportunities of evil doing…

The democracy of parliament is in short the democracy of capitalism. Capitalism gives to the worker the right to choose his master, but insists that the fact of mastership shall remain unquestioned; Parliamentary Democracy gives to the worker the right to a voice in the selection of his rulers but insists that he shall bend as a subject to be ruled. The fundamental feature of both in their relation to the worker is that they imply his continued subjection to a ruling class once his choice of the personnel of his rulers is made….”

With the rise of Labour’s popularity, it and Fine Gaels stated desire for constitutional reform, Sinn Fein’s consolidation of its position and the hope of election of further progressive socialist candidates perhaps the moment is approaching whereby the flaws Connolly addressed in Sept 1900 with the current system of parliamentary democracy,of which obvious parallels with today can be drawn may finally be addressed

[Sébastien de Valmont]

Moronic OP

[pjoz]

Moronic OP

Hardly a surprising verdict from from somebody living in the lap of luxury...I find it interesting that 110 years on we are still inflicted by a system that offers very little real power to the electorate...the majority feel Fianna Fail no longer have a mandate to rule, yet what redress do the majority have short of taking the law into their own hands? Answer = none

[edwin]

Hardly a surprising verdict from from somebody living in the lap of luxury...I find it interesting that 110 years on we are still inflicted by a system that offers very little real power to the electorate...the majority feel Fianna Fail no longer have a mandate to rule, yet what redress do the majority have short of taking the law into their own hands? Answer = none

Let me see...the people passed a constitution which stated that Governments are elected for 5 year terms. They elected this Government to just that.

The last 2 sets of Governments all had very bad opinion polls in the middle of their terms yet managed to win the succeeding election. Opinion polls are not something you should govern by.

[Sébastien de Valmont]

Hardly a surprising verdict from from somebody living in the lap of luxury...I find it interesting that 110 years on we are still inflicted by a system that offers very little real power to the electorate...the majority feel Fianna Fail no longer have a mandate to rule, yet what redress do the majority have short of taking the law into their own hands? Answer = none

The people will have their say in the next election. The latest opinion polls show that Labour looks likely to be ahead of Fine Gael with Fianna Fail in third place. Sinn Fein look like they have failed dismally to capitalise on this seismic shift in Southern Irish politics.

If you want to go back shooting and bombing innocent people for not voting the way you want them to go right ahead.

[pjoz]

Let me see...the people passed a constitution which stated that Governments are elected for 5 year terms. They elected this Government to just that.

The last 2 sets of Governments all had very bad opinion polls in the middle of their terms yet managed to win the succeeding election. Opinion polls are not something you should govern by.

Not suggesting that we should be governed by opinion polls. Just drawing a comparison between two moments in time and outlining how little our democratic system has evolved...Nobody can now seriously state that Fianna Fail have a mandate from the people for the measures they now undertake...the system as it currently stands concentrates power in the hands of a small few while the vast majority have little say...the system more than anything else is responsible for our difficulties....a similar system whose flaws as to what Connelly wrote of in 1900....I haven't any solutions to those flaws but its high time greater minds set about addressing the issue and perhaps that moment is approaching

[NYCKY]

Not suggesting that we should be governed by opinion polls. Just drawing a comparison between two moments in time and outlining how little our democratic system has evolved...Nobody can now seriously state that Fianna Fail have a mandate from the people for the measures they now undertake...the system as it currently stands concentrates power in the hands of a small few while the vast majority have little say...the system more than anything else is responsible for our difficulties....a similar system whose flaws as to what Connelly wrote of in 1900....I haven't any solutions to those flaws but its high time greater minds set about addressing the issue and perhaps that moment is approaching

They don't need a mandate for the measure they now undertake. As unpopular as the government may be, they did get their mandate back in 2007. If the numbers hold and none of the constituent pieces (Greens, independents, PD remnants) walk away then we are stuck until 2012.

[seenitallb4]

I think there is some merit in the Swiss system.

[I'mVeryGladYouAskedMeThat]

The democracy of parliament is in short the democracy of capitalism. Capitalism gives to the worker the right to choose his master, but insists that the fact of mastership shall remain unquestioned; Parliamentary Democracy gives to the worker the right to a voice in the selection of his rulers but insists that he shall bend as a subject to be ruled.

the flaws Connolly addressed in Sept 1900 with the current system of parliamentary democracy,of which obvious parallels with today can be drawn may finally be addressed

Unlike Fine Gael, Sinn Fein is not a democratic party. It is not possible for Gerry Adams to be removed as leader (in a non violent fashion).

[Ludo1973]

They don't need a mandate for the measure they now undertake. As unpopular as the government may be, they did get their mandate back in 2007. If the numbers hold and none of the constituent pieces (Greens, independents, PD remnants) walk away then we are stuck until 2012.

Brian Cowen claims his mandate to govern comes from the democratic process. That is all well and good but if he is such a big believer in the democratic process we have, why does he refuse to hold by-elections?
He himself seems to pick and choose the democracy he wants. I would believe his mandate claims a bit more if he wasn't such an complete and utter hypocrite on the subject.