BBC accept UVF started the "troubles"

[Border-Rat]

selective memory. so until the uvf armed themselves (but never actually shot at anything) there was no violence in Irish politics? fenians.... always funny.

We're talking about the Troubles, not the history of the Universe, you spastic.

[Alliance 109]

We're talking about the Troubles, not the history of the Universe, you spastic.

course you are......course you are. because that was the start of it all, well done....brilliant deduction and an obvious historical powerhouse. cock.

[Young Ned]

course you are......course you are. because that was the start of it all, well done....brilliant deduction and an obvious historical powerhouse. cock.

Do you really want to go through all the history, comparing the motivations and actions of those aligned with England/Britain, and those aligned with a free Ireland? Really?

[Border-Rat]

course you are......course you are. because that was the start of it all, well done....brilliant deduction and an obvious historical powerhouse. cock.

When spence was targeting his victim in the pub, he couldn't sell the idea of murder to his friends at his table. He thought he'd lie about him being in the IRA. So he got off his chair, stood beside the victim and returned to his cohorts claiming he'd just heard details of the mans next IRA plot.

So who was to blame - WELL CERTAINLY NOT GUSTY SPENCE. It was the stress his great grandfather endured, underhand tactics of those Fenians. Genetics prove, you see, that Catholics from pre-1900 are responsible for the Troubles. A drunken psyopath? Nah.

[ArtyQueing]

selective memory. so until the uvf armed themselves (but never actually shot at anything) there was no violence in Irish politics? fenians.... always funny.

Nice to see the reversion to "it was all the Katlicks fault"

We shot them but sure they deserved it being katlick n all

[swansandtyphus]

"They started it"

Oh right because a mob of homicidal loyalist maniacs started shooting innocent people at random and burning people out of their homes, that gives a bunch of self-styled republicans the right to go around shooting innocent people at random and detonating bombs in the middle of crowded streets?

[ArtyQueing]

"They started it"

Oh right because a mob of homicidal loyalist maniacs started shooting innocent people at random and burning people out of their homes, that gives a bunch of self-styled republicans the right to go around shooting innocent people at random and detonating bombs in the middle of crowded streets?

No but when the RUC and the army start doing things like that and support loyalists intent of arson and murder it sort of puts it all in perspective when others retaliate

[st333ve]

The Troubles started because civil rights and political rights were denied, when you prevent peoples right to protest, support the long continuation of discrimination and gerrymandered 'democracy' - then you leave people with no choice other than to riot and turn to violence.

Violence was the only thing that changed the Orange state, without it the Orange state survived for 50 years.
Stopping the violence was the problem.

The Police were killing catholics for 50 years before the troubles, murders didnt start the trouble they were a symptom of the degradation of Irish catholics which was supported by the Orange state and tolerated by the British government.

[topotheday]

No but when the RUC and the army start doing things like that and support loyalists intent of arson and murder it sort of puts it all in perspective when others retaliate

I thought The Catholics begged The British to send The British Army in to protect them?

[topotheday]

st333ve said:

The Troubles started because civil rights and political rights were denied, when you prevent peoples right to protest, support the long continuation of discrimination and gerrymandered 'democracy' - then you leave people with no choice other than to riot and turn to violence.

And yet blacks in the deep South didn't blow up any babies and yet still achieved their goals. Strange.

Violence was the only thing that changed the Orange state, without it the Orange state survived for 50 years.
Stopping the violence was the problem.

Was that were Loyalist paramilitaries came in?

The Police were killing catholics for 50 years before the troubles, murders didnt start the trouble they were a symptom of the degradation of Irish catholics which was supported by the Orange state and tolerated by the British government.

Crikey st333ve! Do you have any links regarding The Police killing Catholics prior to '68/69? I'd love to see some independent figures. Excluding the violence that occurred at partition, of course (after all The Free State was a bit of a blood bath at that time as well!)